The majority of the people I chat with on Twitter are parents like me, so I see a lot of tweets about how hard it is to care for these little monsters we call our kids. Most of the time I smile and nod knowingly as I read these tweets, but from time to time tweets cross my stream that I find a bit unsettling… mainly because they talk about using corporal punishment to discipline kids.
Corporal punishment can be found in both Heather’s and my family history. My Dad, for example, tells a story about going to the circus as a kid and buying a replica lion tamer whip as a souvenir. Upon getting the whip home it was promptly commandeered by his mother who would wave it in the air as a threat when my Dad and his siblings acted up, and, on occasion, smack them with it when they were really bad. After one such occasion my uncle Pete is said to have quipped, “You had to have got the whip, Tony? You couldn’t have just got a stuffed lion or something?”
For Heather’s Mom it wasn’t a whip but something found in the kitchen. “Bring me the pancake turner,” her grandmother would say when the kids got in trouble. Then, once she had the pancake turner in hand, she would proceed to flatten her grandkid’s behinds with it.
One generation later, corporal punishment was still being used in Heather’s and my family. All of our parents used spanking to discipline, but they used it more sparingly than their parents had. Heather’s Dad, upon reflecting on having done this, said “It wasn’t my kids failure as much as my own,” especially when it was done out of anger or frustration. I think that shows a lot of self-reflection on his part, and also that the times have changed a lot on this issue.
Don’t get me wrong… parenting is a very hard job, and kids quickly learn to push our buttons. Even Annie is already starting to do it! In these moments smacking your kid is one way to take control of the situation, but there are other ways, and those are the ones I am going to use.
For me, there are two main reasons for this:
- If you hit your kids to teach discipline, they are likely going to grow up to hit others instead of talking out their problems. And…
- Some of my clearest memories of my childhood are the times I got spanked or slapped, and I don’t want Annie’s clearest memory of me thirty years from now to be a time I raised a hand to her.
Where do you stand on this issue? Am I unfairly maligning corporal punishment as a parenting tool?
NotAMeanGirl says:
I believe sometimes it’s necessary. I hate spanking and I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve corporeal punishment with my son (Who is 11…) but sometimes it’s been needed. Three swats with the flat of my hand or one spat on the cheek with an open hand (Mostly fingers doing the work). I’m very measured. Very careful. I’m also willing to bet it did more damage to me than to him. However, on those rare occasions I’ve felt it was needed, it opened his eyes to the seriousness of the situation and he got the intended message and adjusted accordingly.
My son knows he’s loved, knows I’d do anything for him to help guide him, even if it’s something that I hate doing.
Beth says:
It hurts my heart to hear someone describing the calculated way they hurt their child. If you hate doing it, I promise there is another option that would be equally effective. Honestly, I even understand that sometimes we are furious and make a poor choice. But saying I’m making the conscious choice to physically cause my child pain . . . I just can’t see it. Just a different perspective.
NotAMeanGirl says:
Beth, I do understand your perspective. The fact that it IS calculating and it IS cold and it IS CONTROLLED is what makes it different from child abuse. Abuse is something that is, by definition, out of control.
I NEVER spank my son when angry, NEVER. When you’ve tried everything else, and I DO mean everything including involving counselors, sparing the rod to the exclusion of letting your child harm themselves in other ways that could be more permanent and more damaging than 3 controlled swats on the butt doesn’t make sense to me. NOTE: TO ME.
Meoskop says:
Actually, no. While I am not calling you an abuser, it is a fallacy that abusers are out of control. Some are quite in control of themselves and believe their actions justified or necessary.
Anonymous says:
Mean Girl, I doubt very much that it did a lot more damage to you than to him. Although I was not spanked often, some of my clearest childhood memories are the emotional pain, humilation, rage, and complete helplessness being hit engendered in me. Although I can probably count the times I was hit on one hand, those memories are burned far more deeply in my mind than, say, family vacations, Christmases, Halloweens, or the really fun times we had (and we had a lot of fun times). He WILL remember, and chances are good that it will bother him into adulthood, (although I realize that every person is different) so please stop saying “I’m willing to bet it did more damage to me than to him” in an attempt to justify spanking. If the only way you can get through to your child — even during tough parenting moments — is by hitting him, you are doing something wrong.
Rose says:
While I was spanked as a child and believe it never did me any harm (I have no memories of it actually happening; I can remember the occasional threat though!), now I work in a kids emergency department and it worries me. Because people can lose control and go too far. I know the vast, vast majority of parents would never do this, but society condoning spanking can be IMHO the first step in something more to some people who are at risk.
Molly says:
My parents were both hit as children. One of my parents was abused. My concern is this: Domestic violence, and violence in general are real issues in our world. Condoning hitting children when they “misbehave” is dangerous. It teaches that violence is acceptable. It says that it’s ok to hit someone, as long as they’re smaller than you, and you can justify that they did something “wrong”. Children are dying because of beatings at the hands of their parents. Children are being shaken within an inch of their lives. Is this the norm? Maybe not, but I wonder if those parents were hit as children. What % of wifebeaters were NOT hit as children? I’d be interested to see that statistic.
The bottom line is that there’s no excuse for abuse of another human being. Unfortunately, exploitation and abuse of humans seem to be two things we’re very good at overlooking.
Teki says:
No no no. There is NEVER any reason to hit a child. NEVER. and no I am NOT one of those super indulgent parents with monster children. When I was in my early 20’s I was a live in nanny. During those years I learned and perfected non-violent means of disapline. You do not have to hit your child or verbally abuse them to get reasonable behavior. Mike, your FIL was dead on about it being his failings and/or anger. Bravo for listening to your heart and knowing there is a better way to get through the challenging times, she’ll thank you for it. Heck, I thank you for it!
Tina says:
I was abused as a child by my mother who would hit us mercilessly for the smallest things… I am against corporeal punishment based on anger or frustration BUT I have very carefully and with careful measerument hit the boys. I am talking a slap on the bottom or a swat on the back of the head when they REALLY got out of control.
Just to show them, I mean business and this is serious.
I think my kids are really polite, well behaved kids with good boundaries so I don’t think I need to hit them or spank them when other forms of punishment work on them (like not allowing them to play Xbox for a day because they misbehaved).
That said my kids always try to talk to solve problems and they get beaten at school because apparently everyone else’s children just kick and bit and hit to get their way… so… what do you do?
Sarah Graham says:
It bothers me that the only people you can legally hit are your children. Why is it okay to assault children?
Casey says:
Never thought of it that way, but that is a really great point. (Although I was a CPS social worker for 5 years, so I’m against corporal punishment, but I LOVE this take on it.)
bessie.viola says:
AMEN.
Rachel says:
My thoughts exactly.
Nina says:
I don’t think spanking should EVER be used as a regular method of discipline.
I’ve never had to hit my daughter, but there have been times when spanking my son was the only thing that worked. (We’re not talking broken vases, it was real Threat of Exceptional Harm or Death situatons; as an example my kid liked to hurl himself as fast as possible into oncoming traffic when he was a year and a half. Explaining why not nicely five times did not deter him. Hitting him on the bum a few times did.)
He is almost four now and we’ve stopped using spanking as discipline because he understands danger and treat to the level where there would be no justification to hit him. An explanation will do and there are other ways to punish him if he fails to comply with explanations.
I think the best sort of punishment is a teaching tool and gets your point across. E.g. When he complained to my mum that he did not like the food that she cooked and demanded separate food just for him, then as punishment he was only allowed to eat dry bread and water that day. He completely understood what was happening and why, and the next day there was no more fuss.
I have physically shoved him away a few times when he was tackling his younger sister and had not heeded the warnings of “Stop! That!”. We have hit him a few times out of anger and exasperation, but we always apologised for that because that one WAS very much a failure of our patience, self-control and resources as parents.
Catherine says:
I wholeheartedly agree. Striking your your dog to “train” them is considered animal abuse, but yet it’s still considered acceptable to strike a child? I don’t want my children having memories of me even “gently” hitting them. There is always a better way.
Lisa_in_WI says:
I don’t think striking an animal to “train” it is any more acceptable than striking a child. Both animals and children are helpless and should be treated with care, not physicaly violence.
Catherine says:
Yes, I am pretty sure that that is exactly what I was saying. Hitting an animal is unacceptable (as it should be) yet people continue to use corporal punishment on children. That is what I find mind boggling. I wouldn’t do either, and nor should anyone else.
Bella says:
I was severely abused as a child by my mother, who was horrifically abused by hers. And I wish I was exaggerating with my words- horrific is all too appropriate. (my grandmother laid my mother on a boars head brush in her cradle when she was 6 weeks old, just to hear her scream)
And I still spank occasionally.
I have 2 children. I can honestly say that given the history when I DO spank my children, it is entirely with forethought and WITHOUT anger. I HAVE broken the cycle. And in breaking it, I have not become over indulgent or abusive. It is a hard balance, but I also know that at times a swat can convey the seriousness of a situation when words have failed.
NotAMeanGirl says:
You made the point I was trying to, and FAR more effectively! I’m sorry for what you and your mom have gone through, but I give you a hearty “Brava!” for understanding the cycle of abuse, breaking it, and still managing to keep perspective on disciplining your kid(s). It’s damned difficult to do. (As the child of an emotionally and verbally abusive father with whom the threat of physical abuse was always JUST under the surface, I know first hand how difficult.)
DefendUSA says:
Hmmm. I agree that it can be troublesome to remember being spanked. For example, my dad used the SOB phrase. And I copied him contextually and all. I didn’t know it was swearing. He told me not to say it, and didn’t say why. So, being 5, I said it again. He washed my mouth out with soap. Didn’t taste good, that Octagon. And my mom got me when I was a bit older. I provoked her and talked back. She did hit me, on the back, pretty hard. But I deserved it, and I know it. I was thirteen. That is all I can remember…They were singular events.
Neither of those incidents has made me hit or strike out at anyone, and I have spanked my children. As each one comes along, they have been spanked less than the others and even punished less in terms of groundings. My youngest probably remembers his cowlick being pulled to get his attention but that is the extent. To each his own.
Kelly Horn says:
I don’t consider spanking as abuse. Unfortunately I know there are many who take spanking too far, and many children that are abused. But I think that it’s unfair to say that every parent who decides to spank their children is an abuser. I also think that your statement that children that are spanked grow up to hit other people. That’s not true. I was spanked as a child and I do not go around hitting people because I am angry at them. I think spanking has it’s place, and should not be the first form of discipline. I love my kids more than life itself, but I spank them when they need it. It is up to each parent to choose how they will discipline.
Rachel says:
Spanking = hitting. Hitting = abuse. Just because you’re hitting their bottoms, doesn’t mean you are not hitting your child.
“I was spanked as a child and I do not go around hitting people because I am angry at them.”
“I spank [my kids]”
So you DO go around hitting people (children!) when you are angry at them.
Kelly H says:
Rachel-
We will have to agree to disagree. I do not consider a spanking as child abuse. I do not “hit” my kids. You and I both know that a pop on the rear is not the same as hitting someone. You need to calm down. How people choose to discipline is their own business. You do what you want, I will continue to do as I see best
Rachel says:
I am calm. Calling it something cute, like “a pop on the rear,” doesn’t mean it’s not hitting. I’m glad I’m not your child.
Kelly Horn says:
Believe me, I’m glad you’re not either. My children are wonderful. They are well-behaved, happy, and disciplined. They know they are loved. I’m an awesome mother, and not you or anyone else will make me feel as if I am not.
Rachel says:
And riddle me this: as you are “popping your kids on the rear” would they look at you and ask “Mommy, why are you popping me on the rear?” or “Mommy, why are you hitting me?”
Kelly Horn says:
No, they do not say that I am hitting them. They call it a spanking. Obviously, they are more rational than you.
Kristin says:
Kelly – I agree with you. Being spanked as a child does not necessarily mean the child will go up to hit or be violent. However, it does depend on the child. Just as proper discipline can vary from child to child. I discipline my son much differently than my daughter. I have spanked my son and it does not phase him. He has NEVER EVER EVER hit anyone else. I stopped spanking him because it just doesn’t work, for him. I have spanked my daughter only when I had exhausted all other discipline and it stopped the bad behavior, however, she began hitting me. So obviously, I have stopped spanking altogether.
It really is just dependent on the child and the parent. And whatever discipline is used it must be done out of love. Who says any other form of discipline doesn’t cause physiological problems for the child down the road? Just because you aren’t spanking your child doesn’t mean you aren’t still hurting them…
Kelly H says:
I agree completely, Kristin. Every child is different, and responds differently to discipline. I think you have to do whatever works for the child. What may be right for one, may not be right for the other. In the end, we are all just trying to raise our children to be respectful and to be good people.
meoskop says:
People who think there is a ‘judicious or ‘appropriate’ way to hit their kids are fooling themselves. It is wrong to swat, to spank, to shake, to use any ‘cute’ word you want.
Kelly Horn says:
In your opinion.
Meoskop says:
Doesn’t make me wrong. Not that long ago ‘everyone’ knew it was okay for a man to hit his wife ‘a little’ when she ‘needed it’. Now most reasonable people recognize violence in a relationship is always wrong. Because it is.
Kelly H says:
I didn’t say it made you wrong. I just said that was your opinion. You are the one that said my choice was wrong. I think to each their own. I’m not advocating for everyone to start spanking their kids, but in some circumstances it is works best for my family. And I think your comparison between raising and discipling children and spousal abuse is way off.
Kelly H says:
**disciplining
Meoskop says:
In the early 1970’s women were considered ‘as children’ that had to be trained properly. As a society, we came to understand that was wrong. We will come, as a society, to understand that harming children in the name of love is wrong as well. I call your choice wrong not to call you a bad person, not to call you a bad parent, but because it is wrong, I cannot say ‘to each their own’ when it nvolves harming another. Be it a dog, a spouse, a child the answer in a relationship is never inflicting shock or pain.
Teki says:
Agreed. NEVER Okay.
Kelly H says:
Where we disagree is that you think it is harming the child, and I do not. If I were to closed-fist punch my child in the face – then yes, that is hitting, and abuse, and harmful. By me swatting my child two or three times (and never with full force) on the behind, for a disciplining measure, I do not feel is abuse. Just by you saying it is wrong does not make it so. That is an opinion. Just as I have my opinion. Everyone is free to think how they want.
nona says:
“Everyone is free to think how they want.”
Then you don’t need to be arguing with everyone who is expressing an opinion that is different from yours. It isn’t helping your case, /in my opinion./
Kelly H says:
First of all, I am not arguing with everyone that has an opinion different than the one I have. I have corresponded with two people on here. I initially made a post that someone responded to, and I then defended that position that I made. Most of my argument has been that everyone has a right to their own opinion. No one can say the other is wrong. I have not once said that people that choose not to spank their kids are wrong. We are all allowed to have our own feelings on the situations. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you comment, Nona.
Anonymous says:
Kelly, my question for you is if you don’t think it’s wrong, why are you trying to downplay it with terms like “pop in the rear” and “swatting” rather than say right out on here “Yes, I occasionally hit my children to discipline them.” If you are completely comfortable with the choices you make as a parent, you shouldn’t have to use cutesy words to ameliorate the situation. Just state outright that you hit, and you are comfortable with that. Because you don’t, that leads me to believe that you are less comfortable when forced to confront your choices than at first glance.
Kelly H says:
I am completely comfortable with the choices I make when it comes to disciplining my children. Thanks for your concern:-)
christina says:
I think that the general grouping that if you spank your kids, they are going to grow up hitting people is wrong. Like you were saying that majority of us grew up getting spankings, yet I don’t think the majority of us are abusers! I remember getting spanked as a kid and I never dwell on it or think it made my parents bad. We have 4 children ages 6-12 and yes they got spanked NOT abused. There is a clear difference. In my experience, my friends that are so against any spanking, their kids are so wild and out of control, throw temper tantrums, talk back, etc. That is when I can’t understand their reasoning behind not spanking. I do not believe spanking should be used for every misbehavior, but if used the correct way, you shouldn’t have to spank them often. To us it just reinforces that when we say something we mean it and are willing to follow through with discipline if you don’t behave.
Randi says:
I heartily agree with this Christina.
andrea says:
I completely agree with Christina as well, and will no longer be reading this blog. I refuse to be made to feel as if I am abusing my child some way because I believe in disciplining him. It is no one’s business but my own as far as how I choose to discipline my son. I do not try to convince you that spanking is the right thing to do, do NOT try to make me feel guilty for the occasional spanking or smack on the cheek for talking back. My son is the most well-behaved child I know, and that is because we have not spared the rod. I wish you all well.
GreenInOC says:
@Andrea, I find it sad when people react so severely to being challenged.
Nobody can make you feel anything. You are in control of your emotions.
When is it someone else’s business? When blood is drawn? Bones broken? Emotional damage has been inflicted? Fear is instilled? Bruises appear? Psyches are changed forever?
How is it that it’s never anyone’s business what a parent does but when something is later revealed, the collective response is “why didn’t somebody do something?”
Heather says:
I’m sorry you feel that way Andrea! That wasn’t the intention of this post at ALL – Mike and I were looking to start discussion and hear new points of view.
Meoskop says:
I don’t agree with you Heather. She says she smacks her child on the face. Perhaps this conversation will cause some parents to reconsider what they find acceptable. Perhaps it will improve relationships. Many parents of well adjusted well behaved kids are shocked when those children become adults and reveal the damage this method of rearing has done to the relationship. It is possible to mistreat someone out of love, ot malice, and finding out how others feel about this might help people.
Tonya says:
The problem with this topic is that, clearly, rational discussions can’t be had. I’m not understanding how you just wanted to hear other view points when you are so opposed to spanking. There are two camps: those who spanking, and those who don’t. Yes there are those who are out of control, but in theory, there’s really no middle ground. I loooove you guys, and I love your blog, but I can see how this post struck a nerve in some. I’m quite a bit older than you guys, and my kids are much older than yours, and I am very secure in my parenting style, BUT spanking debates cannot be had without people getting feelings hurt. The same as breastfeeding, SAHM’s, circumcision, etc. And there’s NO room for let’s agree to disagree. Many of the comments here say, in essence, OMG!!!!!! You spanking your kids? ABUSE!!!!!! I referenced this in my comment yesterday, but I’d welcome anyone to come spend time with my girls. Quite obviously, I’ve done SOMETHING right. Maybe it was the breastfeeding and staying at home. 🙂
Heather says:
Hi Tonya! People like you are actually EXACTLY why I thought it would be an interesting topic. I was spanked growing up, and I think I turned out OK! I am not going to spank Annie because Mike is opposed to it. But I think that it CAN work for people – it certainly made me a more well-behaved kid, and it sounds like your daughter is a great kid, too.
Molly says:
I fail to see how a slap on the face would be an effective way to stop backtalk. Well, I guess it works if the child doesn’t back talk because he doesn’t want to get hit, but I’d rather my kids not backtalk because they know it’s wrong/they respect adults… not out of fear of getting hit.
Anonymous says:
If you have allowed strangers to make you feel “guilty” to the point where you no longer feel you can return to this blog based on some questions in the comments section of it, then it appears that you aren’t as comfortable with your choices as it seems. Interesting.
Sharon says:
I agree with you, Christina. I think I can count on 1 hand the number of times I spanked my kids – and that’s counting the number of times I spanked the two of them, not each one. I never used anything but my hand (and I remember getting the buckle end of the belt occasionally when my dad spanked). Some kids simply don’t respond to the time out kind of punishments and knowing the possibility of a swat on the fanny is out there makes them actually listen to you reason with them. My kids are far beyond the spanking stage – both are serving their country in the Navy – but they were well-behaved, wonderful kids who manage to find it in their hearts to love their parents in spite of the apparently horrible abuse we heaped on them by using a method of discipline nearly everyone used in the olden days.
Laura says:
I will never hit my children. My brother and I were never hit, and it’s because my father was horribly abused, both mentally, emotionally, and especially physically, as a child. My grandfather died when I was young, and I don’t know if they made peace with each other, although I suspect they did. But my father still carries some of those emotional scars and difficulties to this day. It’s why when others looking in from the outside think my father is too doting or over-protective, my brother and I know he is trying to compensate for what he endured as a child. (Note: We weren’t spoiled and were never bratty kids. But my dad was up every morning making our lunches as long as we were in school, he’d slip extra money to us as we got older, and generally goes out of his way for us whenever he can. My mother is equally wonderful, but dad is the “softie” of my parents.)
There have been times when I’ve been SO frustrated with my daughter’s behavior that I can’t think of any other way to let her know that she’s acting inappropriately than to spank her. But then I realize that my action would be inappropriate as well – I’m not judging others who spank; just saying it’s not for me or her. It takes so much more patience on my part to try to explain to a toddler why she can’t do something or why something is dangerous. But I think taking that time and using words with her will have a much more powerful impact as she grows older.
Margie says:
I was spanked maybe 3 times by my mom and never for the same offense because she didn’t raise no fool. I harbor no ill feelings about it though. I give my mom a lot of credit though; she was smart. She would explain to me why she was going to spank me and if I understood why, etc. It sucked but I deliberately disobeyed. I have no children so I can’t say if I would or wouldn’t. I’d like to no, I wouldn’t hit my children and I would love to stick to it. I guess, when I do decide to have children, we’ll see.
Amanda says:
I agree. I think that is what is wrong with children today they have no consequence for their actions. I was only spanked a handful of times for very bad behavior but I learned not to do it anymore. My children haven’t needed spanking in years they are 10 and 12. They are very well mannered and well behaved but they know if they misbehave they will face consequences. Most children these days are only told ” No don’t do that” a million times. A few swats on the rear never killed anyone.
nona says:
There are a lot of other “consequences” between being told “no don’t do that” and being hit. Here are three off the top of my head:
– take away a privilege (like computer time)
– take away an item (toy)
– time out
Heather P says:
I say no way! I have a 3 year old son, and he definetely knows how to push buttons, but I have never and will never raise my hand to him. I use a lot of other verbal and non-verbal tools (such as time outs) to resolve the issues. I can only say that I have never seen any good come out of spanking. My friend does it to bother her kids, and then when they get angry, they hit her! I hope she nevers wonders why they turn to hitting when mad, because it is her own fault. Also, I would never want to instill fear in my children; I want them to learn from their mistakes, not learn to just fear MY reaction. Never ok!
Randi says:
I agree with those who say that it is a method of disciplining that shouldn’t be used lightly but that can help in situations. For instance I clearly remember when my then 3 year old son ran out into the parking lot when we were at the store. I’d had his hand in mine and he ripped his hand away and rushed into the parking lot. He knew not to do that, we’d told him before, but he did it. My reaction was to grab his hand and give him a swift swat on the behind. Just one. It didn’t take more than that and the shock of it hurt him more than my hand ever did.
We use many forms of disciplining here – one thing I’ve noticed is that many parents find one form that works and then continue to use that form even when it doesn’t work anymore. For instance a 3 year old may not like a time out, but it might not phase a 5 year old. You have to switch up the disciplining in order to make it work – find the child’s currency, as it were. My 10 and 7 year olds both have different currency – for my son it’s taking away wii time, for our daughter it’s going to bed early. I have not spanked my children in quite some time, but I do believe that it is an acceptable form of discipline when needed, as long as the parent is calm and clear headed when doing it and as long as it’s never more than 2 or 3 good swats with a hand.
Beth says:
I’m just . . . disheartened. Come on, guys, we’re the grown-ups! We’re supposed to be the one in control! If our kids have to find a different way to get along than “2 or 3 good swats with a hand” than surely we can too! I completely understand the urge to hit your kids. They are frigging irritating! But if you believe it is ANYTHING other than anger or a base urge causing you to hit your child, well, in my opinion, you’re fooling yourself. When I am calm, I can always think of a better way.
Nina says:
I would argue that there are times when a measured dose of physical discipline is the lesser harm.
When my son was 18 months he kept trying to dash out onto the open road with a lot of fast-moving traffic. The first few times he tried it I caught him and explained about danger and so on. This was apparently too abstract because all it did was make him more devious in his attempts to Get! Across! That! Road!
We were walking side by side and then he broke away and dashed towards the oncoming bus with all his speed (which was considerable). I caught him inches from the road and I hit him a few times on the bum. He cried, I explained why I did that and that I would do it again if he tried the same stunt and the deterrent stuck.
I didn’t spank him because he annoyed me. I spanked him because there were times in his life when that was the only measure of punishment that would get through to him and that if he refused to fear hurling himself towards oncoming buses, then he could fear me until he grew old enough to understand and evaluate danger.
I didn’t spank him when he got mad because I would not allow him something and as revenge nicked a banana from the kitchen and mashed it into the couch. Instead I made him clean up the damage .
I didn’t spank him when he screamed at me – I sent him to his room for a time out.
Etc.
Procrastamom says:
This is exactly what my son (the youngest and the only one we had to discipline in this way) did when he was a toddler. And the ONLY way we could get him to stop darting into danger was a swat on the bum…it happened maybe twice. He’s 13 now and I recently asked him if he remembered anything about that (Mom guilt). He didn’t remember a thing.
Paula says:
Although I’m against spanking, I can understand a parent who does it in a situation like that. I suppose in those examples it wasn’t about discipline, but you felt as you needed to sort of “scare” your children to prevent them to risk their lives. It is not really a punishment, it’s more like a wake up call.
Procrastamom says:
I think in a situation like that you don’t have the luxury of stepping back, getting your emotions under control and figuring out a better way to punish them. Because it’s not really about punishing as much as it’s about saving their lives.
GreenInOC says:
@Procrastamom – how does spanking a child save the child’s life? I know plenty of people who never hit or spank their children and they’ve been able to teach them not to run in the street.
If spanking worked then you’d only ever have to do it once.
Paula says:
GreenInOC – I suppose that, at that time, the parent felt like the kid needed a “scare”. I don’t belive in spanking, but I can understant a situation like that…
Oh, and any form of discipline needs to be used with consistency and usually more than once, which doens’t mean it’s not effective. That is not why we shouldn’t spank. In my opinion, it’s not its effectiviness that should be questioned, I’m sure it works sometimes, but I’m also sure it’s not the only way to teach something.
Nina says:
@GreenlnOC- I think it definately saved my child’s life because his capacity for mischief was bigger than my capacity for prevention. He proved that all it would take was a single second of divided attention (say me having my eyes on shopping bags I am lifting) for him to dash into traffic. Traffic moves fast on that road. We do not have the luxury of debate. Discussion and hugs can come afterwards.
I think there are plenty of children with whom this is not necessary at all – I was one of those. I trusted a parental ‘no’ but all my son trusted was his own impulses and experience.At 3 years old and at 4 he could be taught with different measures so we used those. I showed him some videos about people being hit by cars, we did games and exercises in road safety.
I’m delighted other parents have never had to resort to thumping their kids on the bum to stop them from becoming splats on the pavement, but I’m more happy that my kid is one piece and alive.
Bria says:
I’m trying not to be a spanker but I do not see a problem with one attention-getting swat (spank, smack, whatever) on the bum if my child is about to do something dangerous (like run out in the road).
Tonya says:
My brother and I were spanked as children. We didn’t grow up to hit others in anger or be abusive. Actually, on a regular basis, we’re told how kind we are and what good people we are. We both went to college and became teachers, both always a favorite of our students, administration and fellow teachers. We’re both in successful marriages.
I have two children, ages 6 and 10. Both have incredibly strong personalities, and I’m firmly believe that without some spankings when they were younger, they would be monsters that only my husband and I could stand to be around. Now, my girls are both star students and athletes, they are loved by their teachers and classmates, and they are just all around great girls. Time will tell if they continue to be!
I volunteer in their schools regularly. On a daily basis, I spot little angels who, I’m sure, have never had a hand laid on them. I truly believe that spanking should be a last resort, and shouldn’t be done in anger, but I also believe it has it’s place. Some children simply do not respond to other forms of discipline. And when they don’t, I believe a swat on the bottom goes a long way. Children must learn to conform, somehow. When they don’t, it’s teachers, peers, society in general who pay the price.
I’m sure I’ll get blasted. This is my opinion, which you asked for. I’ve read other’s opinion, and I respect them, and some valid points are made. In the end, my husband, my brother and I are all happy, well-adjusted, kind-hearted people. Who just so happened to get our butts busted as kids. My own girls are incredible kids who love life and are loved by all. Maybe it’s chance. Maybe not.
Kate says:
This. This times about a thousand.
I was spanked as a child. I have never responded to a confrontation with violence (unless kicking my brother once when I was 12 counts), I am not a violent person or some mal-adjusted miscreant, and my memories of my parents are about all our warm times together, not about the handful of times I’ve been spanked. I’m a former teacher and now studying law; my upcoming internship is working for the state in cases where children have been removed from their homes from neglect and abuse. I’ve turned out fine.
My parents never spanked in anger. They spanked as a response to especially egregious behavior. And frankly, I deserved it in a number of situations. The fact is that you, as a parent, need to discipline your children in the way that works for them and for you. Sometimes, that’s time outs and losing privileges. Sometimes, that’s spanking.
I don’t have children yet, but I am not going to completely rule out needing to spank. I don’t know the personalities of my future children and what will or will not work for them. But comparing a smack for awful behavior with actual child abuse is just ignorant. And if not-spanking is your choice, that’s fine, but don’t assume that every child who was spanked turns into a monster – or that ever parent who spanks is also one.
(The world could use a little more discipline.)
Annalien says:
Tonya and Kate, I fully agree with you. I was also spanked as a child and I am also not by any means violent and confrontational. Each parent has to work out what means of discipline works for them and for their children. And each child is different – my daughter usually only needs a reprimand when she misbehaves and has probably been spanked only about 3 times in her 8 years. For my 5-year old son, however, spanking is often the only method that works for him if he misbehaves (a time-out for him leaves him totally hysterical, which I am sure does more harm to his psyche than the 2 minute cry after a spanking).
My children are loved, happy and (mostly) well-behaved. I repect the fact that some parents choose not to spank and to use other methods of discipline. All I ask is that they also respect my decision to use spanking as one of my methods of discipline.
Holly says:
Apparently, you meant to say that you are not violent . . . except with your kids.
Please be aware that you are absolutely using violence with your kids when you hit them.
Still, If I’ve learned nothing else from being a parent, it is to not judge other parents. Some people can be violent without ever striking their kids (screaming, fear tactics, etc) and we’re none of us perfect.
Colleen says:
Not necessary, not ever. If you are ever that angry that you are considering it, walk away. It is simply unfair for someone much, much bigger to hit someone much, much smaller. It is also the lazy and easy way to discipline. Disciplining is sometimes really hard and emotionally confusing. We used natural consequences, time outs and consistency. If our children had a public tantrum, no matter where we were, we left. If it happened at home, they had a time out until they chilled and then we dealt with what to do after they had calmed down. We also had clear boundaries and rules and when they crossed them, they knew what to expect: a time out, loss of a privilege, no tv time. We never hit them and they have never hit each other. If I was overwhelemd, my husband stepped in after I walked away. Never, never hit a child, I’m with you, Mike.
Kerry says:
Well, a natural consequence of running into the street is getting hit by a car and dying a painful death. That’s acceptable? The most basic, animal part of the brain knows that pain=bad. A quick spank for running into the street is not at all lazy, it’s just immediately showing the child a little pain now to avoid a much worse “natural consequence.”
Heather says:
I was spanked until I was fifteen or sixteen, pants down in the living room…sometimes even when I was on my period…there is NO reason for spanking a child, washing their mouths out with soap or forcing them to eat food they dislike as a punishment. It only creates fear and resentment toward the parents. I was and still am NEVER able to confide in my parents about ANYTHING. Spanking leaves deep emotional scars and someday when I have children I definitely will look up alternative methods of punishment.
Kim says:
Yup. Me too.
Aunt to Another Maddy says:
I was spanked a few times as a child, and it did make me listen. But the talking-to’s could be worse. I do not see a problem with one slap on the bottom. Hitting anywhere else, or any more, is something different.
MJP says:
Mother used to line the three of us up and hit us with a thick yardstick until one of us confessed to whatever offense she thought we had committed. If we spilled our milk accidentally, we were backhanded in the face. So, no it is never appropriate.
Beret says:
My husband was spanked growing up, and has a great relationship with his parents today. He saw no harm in it. I was not spanked and told him we would not be spanking our kids. Once our babies were born he admitted he could never imagine laying a hand on them for any reason.
Our children are 10 and 6 and have never given us even a moment of “that kid needs a good swat”. We have found other ways to discipline that have worked for us.
To each their own I guess, but spanking was never an option in our family.
Lisa says:
I have 5 children. I would give my children a swat on the behind only if they were doing something that was endangering themselves or others. For instance, my daughters, at the tender ages of 2 and 3, escaped the front door and ran right into the street. I did not spank them at that time. I took them inside, explained how dangerous it was to be in the street, etc. etc. When they did it again (how they got the door unlocked I’ll never know) I did spank them and told them why they were getting spanked. They never ran into the street again. If you asked any of my kids this question: Did your mother ever spank you? They would say yes, sure. If you asked them: Did your mother ever hit you, they would look at you in a horrified manner and say: no, never. They knew the difference. I think in my 27 years as a parent I have doled out collectively maybe 10 spankings.
bessie.viola says:
Nope. No spanking for us, not ever. Just doesn’t compute in my head or my heart – I don’t think I need to exert force to get my daughter to obey. She is VERY stubborn, but the times when I’ve wanted to spank her have been times when I am DEFINTELY past my breaking point, so it will never happen. Time out/walk away works for us.
Al says:
I wonder if our kids’ kids will view time-outs as cruel and damaging punishments?
Annalien says:
I was also wondering about this 🙂 – how about abandonment issues or some such thing? My 5-year old son becomes totally hysterical during a time-out, so for him I fully believe that spanking is a better option.
Stacy says:
Interesting thought, I actually stumbled upon a blog (probably couldn’t find it again if I tried) where a mother was writing that our children would be speaking about timeouts as our generation speaks about spanking. Apparently there is already a group of people that believe timeouts are harmful to a child’s psychological well-being, as it withholds love from the child. This woman didn’t believe in any type of punishment, rather she practiced postive reinforcement and redirection only.
Christina says:
I’ve had these conversations while earning my master’s degree. The thing is… time-outs can be done incorrectly: with anger, contempt, in a sort of ‘solitary confinement’ kind of way. There is an argument that time-outs can be relatable to jailing a child and even go so far as to say that it is training your child for jail. But I say that the time-outs in these cases aren’t being delivered appropriately. Of course you have to also leave room for the fact that this won’t work for all (probably a very small number of) children, especially children anywhere on the autism spectrum or children who are emotionally sensitive.
Nichole says:
?
In the most technical sense, time-out refers to “time-out from reinforcement” and is a negative punishment procedure (meaning that a reinforcing item is taken away following an inappropriate behavior). Time-out doesn’t automatically mean that a child is getting stuck in a corner, or an adult leaves a room…
Further, time-out has been shown to be a highly effective procedure (especially when implemented correctly and according to the function of the problem behavior) for all children, including those children on the autism spectrum.
For further reference – check out the National Standards Project produced by the National Autism Society.
Christina says:
I agree, time-out is typically a highly effective procedure. I have used it and continue to. Some people deliver it quite poorly, though… explicitly telling the child that s/he is not fit to be around others (in an angry tone), saying “you’re a bad child,” or if used in a group, making a spectacle of the kid, talking about him/her like s/he isn’t there, “Look at Julie, she’s in time out because she was bad. Don’t be like Julie!” This is harmful to lots of kids.
For autistic children, I worked with about 40 in the years just out of my undergrad, in both school and home settings. Many of them would sit and stim for the entire time they’re in time-out and would prefer to sit alone and stim for hours rather than go back to what the other kids are doing. A few were self-abusive and would sit and hit their heads throughout time-out (not okay to leave them to that, of course). Others were non-verbal and had the skills of a toddler sometimes so you had to be very careful… some things they fully understood, some things they did not.
I’m talking about rare exceptions here, but as more and more people continue to use time-out without understanding it and knowing how to use it, it will bring down the integrity of this effective form of discipline.
lisaj says:
We don’t hit in my house, and that includes spanking.
BUT, I have done the quickly swoop up and squeeze the hand when S grabs or touches something that could hurt her. SO I guess that could be construed as a physical punishment.
We were spanked as children, and like you, Mike, they are some of our most vivid memories. I am not ok with that for my daughter. And when she hits I tell her “hands are for helping, not hurting”, so we model that.
Jessica says:
Totally agree. I never raise a hand to my kids and neither does my husband. I remember the paddle, it was this wooden thing that hung on the wall and had a picture of a little girl covering her eyes. Who would make these things? Can you imagine if people tried to sell them now?
Kim says:
My mother hit me because she was angry and didn’t know how else to dispel her fury. I’m still angry at her about it. She would send me to the kitchen to get the wooden spoon, bring it back to her, she would spank me as hard as she could then make me take the wooden spoon back to the kitchen. How is this right?
My husband and I don’t hit our kids. We discipline, control, and communicate with our kids. Spanking is lazy parenting, because people who spank are literally lashing out rather than thinking through the alternatives such as taking away privileges, doing chores, etc. There is a REASON raising children is the hardest job in the world.
To spanking parents who will say, sight unseen, that I’m raising monsters, my kids are VERY polite to others, good kids with good manners. Other parents are always saying this along with my kids’ teachers. Spanking is NOT a one-way ticket to a good kid.
Studies show that people who are hit as children are more likely to be bullies, to not go as far in life, to not go to college, etc. Maybe not you, but studies indicate these tendencies. And how can you tell your child not to hit by hitting them? Makes no sense to me.
It also makes no sense that I can do to a child what I’d get arrested for doing to another adult. And remember no self-help books advocate hitting children as a valid form of discipline.
Gentleness is power under control.
nichole says:
What studies are these? Are these empirically-based research findings written in legit peer-reviewed journals, or something random online? Because there is a difference…and last I knew, spanking protocols weren’t exactly something that would get through an IRB. Further, unless you have a direct, experimental, controlled comparison…all you end up with is a correlation. And correlation does not equal causation…particularly when dealing with parenting styles, bullying, long-term outcomes etc. The existence of spanking in a child’s history could speak to a lot of different factors which would also contribute to poor outcomes…various disabilities that make the child harder to parent, poor parenting styles, low SES, etc. Additionally, there are generations of people who have been spanked who did not turn into delinquents…which leads me to anecdotally state that the act of spanking does not directly cause further lifestyle delinquency, but may speak to other factors that would.
I’m not saying this in support of spanking, that’s just the scientist in me being picky about people justifying their opinion by saying “studies have shown.”
Anna says:
This is a fantastic response.
Kristen says:
this response made my inner statistician squeal for joy. excellent point.
Nichole says:
LOL.
Glad to be in such good “dorky” company:)
spelling lover says:
I think you mean “corporal punishment” not corporeal…
Carrisa says:
I think spanking falls into one of those categories like co-sleeping and breastfeeding. It’s a touchy subject, but in the end you have to do what works for you.
As a child the fear of a spanking was enough to keep me in line. Send me to my room but please don’t spank me. My sister was all for a spanking as long as it meant she didn’t have to be sent to her room.
I do not have kids yet, so I can’t be sure if I will change my mind regarding spankings or not. I don’t think it should be the first thing you try, but if it ends up being the only thing that gets the message across, then so be it. I was spanked plenty as a child (only a couple of times with a belt). I don’t feel scarred nor do I harbor any ill feelings towards my parents. I also have never gotten into a physical fight with anyone.
Not every kid that is spanked is going to be a bully. And there’s probably a good number of criminals out there who were never spanked.
Andrea says:
There are so many degrees and perceptions of physical punishment that people will never agree. I try to do what works for me and my family and ignore everyone else. The Mommy wars and judgmental posts do not help anyone. Spanking, cry it out, cloth vs disposable, breast vs bottle are just a few of the thousands of decisions we make for our kids and really, they don’t matter all that much in the end. Kids with perfect parents still turn into horrible adults and kids with less than stellar parents turn into successful and wonderful adults. In the end these little people that we are raising will make their OWN choices. Do your best to give them a good foundation in life and don’t nit pick someone else who makes different choices than you.
Procrastamom says:
I would stand up and give you a round of applause for this comment, but that would be weird as I’m at work. It’s true, all of these issues that we argue endlessly about on the internet do not really matter in the end. Heck, they’re all going to grow up to be messy teenagers, who smell like a mixture of Axe cologne and B.O. Their rooms will make the local landfill look like a nice place to picnic and it won’t matter what you chose to feed them as an infant, they’ll still think a pop-tart and a coke is good choice for breakfast!
Amy W says:
Excellent response!!! My thoughts exactly!!!
Kelly H says:
Agree!
Mandy says:
“The Mommy wars and judgmental posts do not help anyone. Spanking, cry it out, cloth vs disposable, breast vs bottle are just a few of the thousands of decisions we make for our kids and really, they don’t matter all that much in the end. Kids with perfect parents still turn into horrible adults and kids with less than stellar parents turn into successful and wonderful adults. In the end these little people that we are raising will make their OWN choices. Do your best to give them a good foundation in life and don’t nit pick someone else who makes different choices than you.”
I agree wholeheartedly with you, Andrea.
It seems that the “discussion” of hot topics like this clearly gets more traffic to the blog.
I GET why these topics are being brought up, like a few weeks ago, when it was about “selective reduction”. All these topics do is start a fire, under the guise of “curiosity” or “opinion-gathering.” For web traffic.
This will be my last visit to this blog and of course, my last comment. I refuse to feed the trolls, and I think it’s sad this blog has these “discussions” that are about serious and important subjects. I never came to this blog to read about these topics; I have separate sources for when I feel like getting involved in a serious parenting or political discussion.
Amanda says:
Honestly, I think it depends on the child.
For example: I have one child that spanking would be totally worthless while I have another that sometimes it’s the only way I can get her attention – it’s very sparingly but when done, extremely effective.
What I don’t understand is that while spanking is considered horrible, yelling at your children often times isn’t. For me growing up I would rather had a pop on the bottom rather than being yelled for 10 or 15 minutes about what I had done wrong. Likewise, the silent treatment is also just cruel. At least in my opinion.
Look, I don’t advocate hitting my children. But, when faced with life or death situations its effective. More than talking about it. At least for one my children.
Now, let’s fast forward to when they are teens. I have one that just doesn’t.know.when.to.stop.arguing. Yelling at this point is completely ridiculous – nether one of us is listening and I am never going to get my point across. Ever. It’s just not in her nature. That said, she recently said something that just went.too.far and I admit I popped her in the face. And I felt horrible doing it but you know what? She still remembers that there is a line and she shouldn’t cross it. Would I do it again? I don’t know but I know that it did leave an impression.
I’m sure that most will diagree with me but this is my opinion.
Yelling, the silent treatment? Worse than a pop on the bottom. And certainly more damaging to my emotional health.
Mary says:
Well, in my case my family never spank me because I was soooo scare of the looks that my father gave me when I was misbehaving and he pull out his belt from his pants and make a sound with it, that I was like an angel in no time.
GreenInOC says:
Imagine that you keep making a mistake at work – you’re 5 minutes late every day let’s say. Your boss keeps telling you that it’s not acceptable but, you know, it’s at most 5 minutes – come on!
One day you come in and your boss wants to speak with you. He, with forethought, without anger, in a very thought out , measured and controlled manner, slapped you.
You know, to make you understand that he was serious, that he was there to guide you and to keep you from hurting your career.
NotAMeanGirl says:
There is a HUGE difference between spanking a child because they persist in an activity that could harm therm (Running into the road, escaping the house, trying to mess with the stove) and spanking them because they left their dirty clothes on the bathroom floor AGAIN.
Today’s society has become so black or white on so MANY issues that they can’t seem to think anymore. It saddens me that few seem to understand that the phrase “All things in moderation” really does mean all things.
GreenInOC says:
@NotAMeanGirl – the same could be said for adults. In the example I provided, always being late will hurt your career which will hurt your ability to provide for yourself and your family. Not taking your career seriously can have major repercussions. Just like the situations people use to justify spanking children.
My example was really meant as an empathetic exercise – when you remove the child from the example and replace it with an adult it allows people to perhaps see that violence is violence. Somehow we seem to think that violence between adults is not okay but as long as it’s and adult and a child it’s acceptable.
I understand and agree with your point about many issues being black and white. However, I don’t believe that violence in moderation is something we should learn to accept.
Nina says:
Violence between adults is a completely different context for many reasons such as adults usually respond to logic and disciplinary meetings. Also your boss can fire or suspend you if they are that unhappy with your performance, but I cannot do the same for my child. My duty to look after him and protect him never stops.
Being 5 minutes late for work is not the same as endangaring life and limb. I would not advocate spanking because a child spilled their juice.
But if a worker walked in waving a gun around and their co-workers tackled them and punched them/restrained them – I don’t think anyone would argue with that.
Molly says:
You say that violence between adults is different. That’s only because there is no longer the imbalance of power between parent and child. The adult is in charge. the adult is responsible for showing a child right from wrong, for showing them how to move about in the world.
What spanking says is “it’s ok to hit someone as long as they’re weaker/smaller than you”
Nina says:
That is not true Molly – there are significant disparities in power between adults just as there are between parents and children.
What spanking says is it is okay to hit someone as long as their welfare is your responsibility and they are a danger to themselves or others and causing them a measured amount of discomfort will protect them from a larger harm.
teki says:
Because you put yourself in a dangerous situation and you could’ve seriously gotten hurt, I’m going to spank you. Yup, makes plenty of sense. Excellent way to “protect” your child.
Nina says:
Well it is if they don’t end up doing it again. My son stopped trying to dash across the road, which was exactly the desired result which I did not get with talking and timeouts.
Anon says:
I was spanked once by my mother for running across the street and almost getting hit by a car. I was 5 and definitely knew better. I don’t remember it hurting and it doesn’t bother me that she did it. I was never spanked by my Dad but his general lack of control over his temper scared me and looms over my childhood. He yelled and screamed, kicked things, etc. I don’t think we will spank our son (newborn) but I am more concerned that I keep my temper under control and don’t act like my Dad. I am glad he didnt spank, I don’t think he would have been able to stop, I probably have my mom to thank for that.
Shanna says:
My mother had a whip. Shudder. I’m with you all the way on this one. Like you, some of my clearest memories are of being physically punished.
Susan says:
I have NEVER hit my children…NEVER…I was raised in an abusive home where hitting was an all-time occurrence. Did it make me be “good?” Yep. Did it cause me HUGE emotional problems? “YEP!” Did it cause me to now HATE and FEAR my father? YEP! Do I now have a relationship with him? HELL NO!!! My children have never been hit…period…they are now 24, 22, and 17 and you won’t find three better young people. My friends are amazed when I tell them I never hit my kids. My oldest is a graduate of Vanderbilt and is now in grad school at Maryland. My next is a graduating from college this year, works part-time, and has a steady boyfriend. My son is a solid athlete and scholar in high school. My kids are drug free and have never been in trouble either at school or with the law. BUT and this is a HUGE but…I set rules from the time they were toddlers. If I told them a toy would be taken away or they would sit in time out, I meant it. Period. The toy would be put up in a closet and they sat in time out. They learned respect without being bullied or hurt. I even went so far as to cross out the “corporal punishment” EACH year my children were in school and we had to sign that packet of papers the schools send home. I wrote EACH year on EACH form that no one would EVER hit my child. I was totally serious. Thank God my children are such wonderful people. They have told me they will NEVER hit their children, so I can rest assured my grandchildren will be okay.
Off my soapbox. The end!
Susan says:
P.S. For those who feel hitting is a way to “teach”…how would you like it if every time you make a mistake your boss hits you? Why is it any different? They are just trying to teach you the right way to do things. They are just trying to make you UNDERSTAND what you did was wrong.
Nina says:
I was so sorry to read about your experience Susan. I am not surprised you have powerful views on the subject and I’m glad you were able to raise your children in different ways than the ones that harmed you. That’s really admirable.
I do think there are signficant shades of grey on this issue though.
If a child is hit every time they make a mistake – then that is abuse. If a child is hit in a way that is about venting a parent’s anger – that is abuse. Those methods only teach children to fear and resent their parents.
For those who practise it spanking should never be an everyday response, and it should be done within a lot of constraints. (E.g. never in a way that humiliates the child, such as hitting them in front of their friends or using whips/belts or needing the child to be naked). It’s about protecting them from a greater harm through the use of a deterrent, not about injuring their sense of self.
I would not like it at all if my boss hit me, or my husband. But if one of my co-workers started waving a gun around I would very much like it if someone hit/tackled them.
nichole says:
Nina, your logic is awesome and I think your last paragraph points out some flaws in the spanking debate.
I think it is bias to assume that everyone who spanks their child is doing so to teach them following every occurrence of inappropriate behavior. There are various topograpgies of behavior, and when a parent uses spanking to teach their child that they can NEVER run into the street, that is very different from a parent who spanks because the child accidentally dropped something, or gets something wrong.
Rachel says:
I remember sitting on the stair railing and being shaken by my mother when I was less than 3 years old during an episode of the Smurfs. No idea what I did, but that is my first memory. My other punishment was to “go to the corner until you get the devil out.” With a catholic background, that was pretty heavy. I was constantly afraid of dying in my sleep if I was bad that day because I didn’t want to end up in hell!
No spanking/slapping/paddling/etc here. However, being banished to her room ends up being a long and drawn out process because of her stubbornness and refusal to apologize (or do whatever it is we want her to do to fix the situation). This morning, she ended up in there for 20 minutes because her choice was to clean up her toys or sit in her room. It takes her awhile to admit that whatever she did was wrong, so we just wait. Hopefully, that’s less scarring than being shaken or told to get the devil out, but I have no idea. At least there’s no potential brain damage!
RzDrms says:
People are not hittable objects.
brooke says:
really? we can’t separate spanking from child abuse? here is a simple inquiry… what are your intentions in spanking? are you spanking because you want to hurt your child or are you spanking because your child isn’t responding to discipline of a more rational nature? lets face it, while kids have brains like us and are learning, they are often NOT capable of adult rationality (hell, some adults haven’t figured out the finer nuances of logic and making sense yet). a measured swat on the fat of a kids rump is not injuring them, but it is getting their attention and letting them know whatever negative behavior you are correcting, is not acceptable. not all kids need this. some really do respond to the time outs, etc. but i wasn’t one of those kids, and without the swats i got to get my attention, i’m certain i wouldn’t have learned some very necessary lessons. and believe me, i’ve seen many a kid that was not spanked, smack another kid out of frustration. we are animals, rational or not, and we respond to the fight or flight signals our bodies give us, whether or not someone else has taken a fight approach with us, that instinct doesn’t magically cease to exist. part of our duties as parents is teaching our kids to assess a situation that triggers that instinct before acting, and if you aren’t making those assessments, you are dropping the ball as well. but that doesn’t mean there doesn’t exist a situation where an assessment might not call for a swat to the butt. i have a niece who has grown up in a non-spanking environment, who is way too smart for her own good, and who has been disciplined via your standard non-corporeal methods consistently… and this kid is the most emotionally manipulative kid i’ve ever met. she has learned through the “rational approach,” that you can change someones behaviors by consistently telling them they are hurtful or wrong for acting that way, and literally, at 8 years old, bullies other kids without having to lift a finger. when her parents try to correct her behavior through non-corporeal methods, she argues, and actually grins as she sees their frustrations rise, knowing that she is “winning.” when they ignore her instead, she will throw things, lash out, throw tantrums, etc. she’s known to smack her brother for not giving her everything she wants, and it didn’t come from her parents. i am firmly of the position that a swat to the butt would be doing this kid a big favor, as well as the family unit and her peers. having this opinion makes me a child abuser? i think THAT is irrational. i don’t think most people are eager to raise a hand to a kid, and the ones that are eager, yes, worry about abuse, but i don’t think people should lump parents that use a measured spank when necessary into the same group. if your kid doesn’t require it, fantastic. but if your kid isn’t responding to other methods? please, don’t stop trying to effectively parent because someone else screws their nose up at you for spanking your kid.
NotAMeanGirl says:
THIS!
Annalien says:
Amen!
Rebecca says:
I was spanked and I hated it. I love what you said towards the end, that you don’t want Annie’s memories to be of you spanking her. Most of my memories of my parents, when I was very young, was of being spanked or threatened of being spanked. My mom used a spatula, called “her friend”. Most of the time, though, she would just wave it around to scare us. My dad was the one who would actually hit and he and I barely have a relationship anymore.
I refuse to spank my children. Recently I was at work (in a restaurant) and a woman had to chase her children across the store. A co-worker came up to me and said “See, kids act that way because we can’t spank anymore!”. I about blew up. My niece and nephew are never spanked and they are about the most well-behaved children I know. It’s not about punishing the children when they’ve done something wrong, it’s about setting limits and not allowing them to go over the limits by being consistent the first one or two times they do push it too far. Parents who have children who are out of control typically don’t care. Most kids I see are well-behaved. Then, we have kids who run around the restaurant barefoot (one even went through the server line and almost into the kitchen) while their parents sit at the table and ignore them. I don’t understand that one at all.
Paula says:
I’m a hundred percent against spanking.
I don’t understand why a lot of people think kids who doesn’t get spanked are brats, or will become brats. I was never spanked as a child and was a very well-behaved kid. I knew what “no” meant. I have cousins and friends who were spanked and did not behave better than me. I also think I have more respect for my parents today than they do, and also a better relationship. Although I think it’s unfair to say that this is only because I wasn’t spanked, I think it has to do with the fact that my parents always treated me with respect, so I also respect them. One clear example for me is the relationship my husband (who was spanked, mostly by his mom) have with his parents – he loves them, but in no way he listen to their opinions (specially his mom’s) like I listen to my mom and dad. I suppose when you choose to spank, you use the fact you’re bigger and stronger than your kids to impose your ideas, and as the child grow up, it can get less and less effective.
That being said, I don’t think parents who spank are bad parents. I think it’s a bad choice. I suppose it can be effective, but I don’t see it as being necessary. In my opinion, there is always another (non-violent) way to discipline.
Amy says:
My daughter is only two and I haven’t spanked her. But I do use the threat of spanking to get her to listen. She doesn’t know what it is, but she knows she really doesn’t want one. I think I’m doing okay.
BethRd says:
I was raised without ever being spanked, and I’m a decent, honorable member of society. I have never once hit/spanked my children (although I will confess I have picked them up and removed them from situations with less than optimal gentleness) and they are both good kids who never get in trouble at school/day care for misbehavior. There might be situations where I would reluctantly agree that spanking was the least of all evils, but in reality I haven’t found one in my own childrearing.
GreenInOC says:
Spanking children seems to be the last acceptable form of domestic violence.
For those who seem to feel that there is no harm as long as it’s done with forethought and calculation? When other people who inflict violence upon others with forethought and calculation, we call them psychopaths.
I am not suggesting that anyone here is a psychopath. What I am suggesting is that the justification (“I only hit when I’m calm and it’s calculated”), is not exactly helping your argument!
Jennifer says:
I was thinking the exact same thing!
Anonymous says:
So was I!
DefendUSA says:
Sigh. Everyone has opinions and they should be respected, as this is no place for judging people.
I was not abused because I was spanked, yet some people feel it is. Okay. And others have very valid reasons for not wanting to be physical with their children be it personal experience or living with someone who was abused. Okay.
For those of you out there claiming you would never (have never)physically strike your child, I wonder something.
How many times will reasoning or time outs work before you can become verbally abusive?
We as parents start out with the best of intentions, and as such there will be times when we fail and do so miserably. I encourage everyone to remember that- nobody is operfect and someday you might eat your own words. That’s okay too.
The point is that you understand the things that have permanently affected you and try not to do the same. It is all we can do, but it does not mean we suck as parents because we choose to do things differently as many of the comments seem to imply.
I can honestly say that I have many memories that I can construe as having effed me up as an adult…like my sister stealing my underwear and now as an adult, having way too many for my own good. Perspective is a good thing. She had issues that have been corrected and I don’t hold it against her.
Lighten Up.
Kelly H says:
Agree
GreenInOC says:
Children should be spanked when it merits it. Hitting a child with an open hand is okay. Children push buttons and they need to learn. If the child doesn’t complain about it, it’s okay.
Replace “children” with “women” and watch this:
Teki says:
Thank you.
Andrea says:
Children should be put in timeout when it merits it. Children should be repeatedly put back on the timeout spot if they move away. Children should have things they enjoy taken away from them when they behave inappropriately.
Replace “children” with “women” and you will that women are NOT children so comparing them this way is pointless.
JKB says:
I love how over and over people who do spank (etc.) keep saying “I was spanked as a child, but I don’t go around hitting people now”. Apparently their children don’t count as people?
Striking anyone is a violent act no matter how calm and calculated you think you are being while doing it. We change the word from hitting to spanking to make it sound less violent than it is. (It’s just like saying we are eating beef instead of cow, to disassociate the two things in our head and make it more appetizing)
I was hit as a kid. It was in all of the acceptable places (butt, hands, mouth) with mostly accepted things (hand, wooden spoon, belt). My mother was the one who hit me. As a child she was hit, plus her parents had a whole other bag of tricks including kneeling on grits. I understand why my mother ended up hitting my sister and I (it’s hard not to do what you are taught), and I am thankful she stopped at hitting us and didn’t use the other various techniques used on her. I am however haunted by the memories of being hit for various infractions, so much so that I refuse to have wooden spoons in my house and cringe if my mom absentmindedly adjusts her belt. We do not hit our 2.5 year old daughter and would never allow her to be punished in that way by anybody else. My mind instantly goes to “well maybe she just needs a good swat” when my daughter is misbehaving, but I know that is because that is how I was raised, and I do not want that cycle to continue with my daughter.
I do not think my mom is a bad person, nor was she a bad mother. I do not think I am a bad person either. I think though that we are good people DESPITE having been hit. I think my daughter (and future children) will be good people too, they will just experience a more gentle version of childhood, where violence is never justified as being “for their own good”.
NotAMeanGirl says:
I think the point people are trying to make, including myself, is that having been spanked doesn’t mean that you’re going to use violence as your go to response.
GreenInOC says:
No it doesn’t but it could. Does anyone really want to be the parent that sparked violent tendencies in their child.
It can result in a higher threshold for violence in general, for being on the giving or receiving end of other types of abuse, certain reactions that are not considered normal.
I knew when my Mom was getting ready to hit me – it started with her frustration and angry response. I would start to cry because I knew what was coming.
Guess what used to happen at work when a boss or coworker started getting frustrated or angry – even when not directed at me – I would cry!! Not exactly professional!
It may not destroy a child, the child may even turn into a fairly level-headed and happy adult but we’ll never know what could have been or how that child could have soared without the threat of violence.
Anonymous says:
JKB, I understand where you are coming from. I am in my mid-thirties and I am still scared sick of my father. Even though on the surface we have a “good” relationship, I know I spend too much time trying to micromanage holidays and situations so his temper does not flare. I was sick the two weeks leading up to my wedding because since he has a history of flaring up on special occasions I thought something would go wrong. Since it’s so erratic, it’s really hard! When he adjusts his belt innocently or takes it off to tuck his shirts in I have to leave the room to talk myself out of a panic attack.
Kristin says:
I never comment, but had to chime in. I was always against spanking until my firstborn was about 4 years old and starting getting mouthy. The backtalk was unbelievable, and something we don’t tolerate. When he was younger, I was never EVER tempted to strike him for things like making a mess, not sticking close in a store, refusing to share, etc. Those are actions that I could address in many ways without hitting. But in that delightful phase of backtalk, no amount of warnings, time-outs, taking away privileges and “talking it out” would work. So on two separate occasions I popped him on the mouth immediately after he sassed at me. And you know what? It worked. I was driven to that point after every other method failed and I don’t regret it. The message was loud and clear to him. By not using it as a routine form of discipline, it maintains some effect for the worst offenses. The hits were not hard enough to leave marks, swelling or bleeding, but the sting he felt sent a message to his brain to knock it off.
As my sons grow to be teenagers, I reserve the right to correct them in this manner if needed. They will not be punks, mark my words 🙂
Kara says:
You hit your young son in the face. Saying “popped him on the mouth” does not change the fact that you, his mother, hit your very young son in the face.
That is disgusting.
Kristie says:
I was spanked as a child. I was not abused. I respected my parents and i feared consequences of mis behavior. I have not been blessed with children but i believe a swat on the butt when a child is old enough to understand consequences for mis behavior is ok. My mother did not have to swat me often… She just reminded me of consequences and that was enough for me. Its so controversial and often parents can lose control so how do we know if it is too much. Hmmm. My experience was not bad but for many children it can be bad. Im on the fence.
Kristina says:
Reading the comments, I think I am in the minority here. We spank. Not often, and never out of anger, but we do on occasion when our little guy is really acting out.
Here’s the thing, every kid is different and every parent is different and every parenting style is going to be different.
We have done time outs, we have talked with him when he acts out, we have done every other kind of discipline you can imagine, but sometimes, he really only responds to a spanking. Do I like to do it, no, of course not. Does it keep him from doing the very naughty thing that he was doing to get the spanking, usually, yes. He responds to that form of discipline. So, sometimes, we do it.
I whole heartedly do not think what we do can even remotely be characterized as abuse, but I understand there is a fine line which is why this can be such a sensitive subject.
Ashli says:
Both my boyfriend and I were VERY strong willed children and we were spanked as kids and we both agreed that it was what was needed for us. My sister on the other hand was very compliant, very easygoing child that you could just say stop that and she would so she never needed to be spanked.
I was not that way. My mother tells me stories of times that she would tell me not to do something and I would look right at her and do it and then go put myself in the corner. It didn’t bother me at all. The only think that every worked was spanking. The same with my boyfriend. My parents tried everything and nothing else phased me at all.
You really have to do it on a kid by kid basis. Some kids that’s the only way they will ever learn not to do something and some kids never need that extra step. But sometimes it is necessary. I was never abused, never hit with anything worse than my fathers hand, and I’m not scarred for life and I certainly have never been violent or thought to hit anyone else. There are violent people in this world whether or not they were spanked and I think it’s a huge leap to link those two together.
I also think there is a huge difference between hitting your child and spanking on the bottom in a controlled manner and NEVER when you’re angry.
Bianca S says:
^^ This! You could have been speaking about me and my sister there.
Ray says:
Coincedence that you write about this, because I was talking to my father about this yesterday. My father’s never hit me, but he agrees it’s okay to use discipline if a child is out of hand. Not abusive punsishment of course (like the kind that he endured), but regular punishment like a spanking.
I have no children, but: “I’d hope to never hit them.”
I would never want to humiliate my child in that way, or to instill fear.
There are other ways to discipline (with time-outs, taking privileges away, etc). And your WORDS should be enough. That is why respect for parents should be taught early on in children. People let their kids go wild, and then hit them because they won’t sit still.
I like your stance on not using corporal punishment with Annie, as you don’t want her first memories to be bad ones.
You’re good father!
Brenda Vicario says:
I completely agree with you and love this post:) Some of the most clear memories I have are also of being spanked or slapped…I definitely do not want that to continue with my children:)
Nina says:
I was spanked once as a child. I was 7 years old, and I had been careless playing on the road. My father spanked me, and it didn’t really hurt but it made me furious because I was a compliant child and telling me I had done wrong and dissapointed my parents would actually have been a ton worse. After he was finished I told my father that he hadn’t needed to do that and if he did it again that I would never forgive him. Then I refused to speak to him until he apologised to me.
On the other hand my husband and very close friends were what one might call wild children. They largely had loving and consistent parents but they were stubborn and adventurous dynamos who got up to no good. My husband can recall more than one occasion on which he was spanked as a child but says that in his opinion he knew he was being a shit/danger to society at the time and the misdemeanor deserved it. (The list of his childhood crimes is significant, but includes such gems as wondering away from home at the age of 5 to get on a bus, get off at the end of the line and then wonder around and eventually – by chance more than anything- get back on another bus and wind up near home. Having been missing for 5 hours by the time their parents got hold of him they were half out of their minds with worry).
There are different methods for different kids and different offences. Also context is everything.
Jennifer says:
I find it frustrating that people who are anti-spanking use the argument that “well, what if you go to far and hurt them.” True discipline is never a snap judgment. Spanking is never supposed to be a snap judgment, because your frustrated with your child. Honestly, it’s the people who are anti-spanking that end up hurting their kids because they wait until they are pushed to the brink and then lash out. If your child gets a spanking as a consequence, a consequence that they are well aware of while they are being disobedient, you have no need to wait until you are angry to use that consequence. Spanking children should have nothing to do with how you feel in that moment.
Angie says:
Um what makes you think that anti spanking people wait until they are pushed to the brink and then lash out???
I actually do the opposite. I address the behavior immediately with a warning. If it is done again then their is a consequence, like losing a toy or tv, which is provided with the warning.
Just because people are anti spanking, that doesn’t mean they don’t discipline.
Trisha says:
I was spanked a few times growing up by my dad and I can remember the where’s, when’s and why’s. While I can remember them vividly it’s not because the spanking was just so awful that I’m scarred, but more the oh my goodness I can’t believe I misbehaved that badly and did that. I had a wonderful relationship with my Dad until he passed away in 2005; in fact he was my hero and best friend. The times I did get my butt handed to me, he was calm and struck me on my bottom with his hand or with a paddle. Usually him or my mom could ground me or take privileges away but there were a few times that I needed an awakening as to why what I did was so dangerous as to not repeat the mistake.
I’m grown now and I have 4 daughters, 3 of which are teenagers in high school and I have a 3 year old. I would not consider myself a violent person as a result of my spankings from my father. I have spanked my girls a couple of times through their childhood for seriously dangerous choices much like I made when I was younger. Now as teens, they are well rounded and growing up to be very nice young ladies and they can’t even recall the very few times I had to spank them.
Michelle says:
I think the difference between physical abuse and a “swat” is the context around it. I don’t think you should ever spank a child out of anger. I don’t think it should hurt them either. I think it should be used to get their attention, when other methods have failed. I also feel it should not be repeated, meaning multiple “swats” seems to be more of an anger fill punishment, than an attention-getting strategy.
That being said, I was spanked as a child. Mostly by my mother. My father never “had” to spank us. He was an extremely loving man, but we also knew not to disobey him. I remember my sister and I sometimes laughing at my mother after she spanked us, so I don’t have any “bad” memories of this form of punishement.
I have spanked my children a few times. If time-out isn’t working or they are talking back and refusing to go into time-out, a swat will get them there and let them know I mean business.
I think the main problem is that everything always sounds worse when it is someone else’s kids. If my child throws a tantrum or is crying and whining, I know the context around it and know that sometimes it is better to ignore it. However, if I am in the grocery store and hear the same thing from a different child, my heart goes out to them and I want the mother to comfort them. It’s always different when you are on the outside looking in.
nona says:
I read through about half the comments on this post and I have concluded that:
The parents who spank their kids are punishing behavior that is a result of the bad parenting they have already done.
I was spanked as a kid, and my mother would also wrap her spindly claw-like fingers around my arm in a painful grip. The memories I have of these things are all negative. Oooh and I just remembered I got in trouble in like 2nd grade for scratching a classmate to the point of drawing blood.
teki says:
http://rainbirdfoundation.org/blog/spanking-part-ii-2-ideas-core-spanking
Meyli says:
I agree with you completely, Mike. Some of my most vivid childhood memories involve hitting and crying. Not what I would choose to remember!
There are always other options for discipline, and I really think consistency is very important. Child won’t clean up her room? Child must go sit in the corner with no toys/fun. Child throws a tantrum for no reason? Child gets no tv privileges. If you stick by the rules you set, your child grows up knowing the boundaries, but not being fearful of you.
You and Heather are so thoughtful when it comes to what you want for Annie; it’s really admirable.
Beverly says:
Spanking is okay in my opinion. Not beating, not being abusive, not being excessive, but getting the attention of the child and getting your point across in an instant when it is called for. I just don’t think it is wrong.
meoskop says:
I just want to add that I have never known someone to say “Yes, I abuse my child” but I have known many to say they do not – and the children disagree. Both in my own life growing up and now as a parent listening to my children’s friends I have heard many tearful conversations about the pain and / or humiliation of a parent’s actions. Those parents do not consider what they are doing abuse, they do not consider themselves abusers.
The easiest way to never physically abuse your child is to never lay painful hands on your child.
Vanessa says:
I absolutely agree with you Mike. Don’t be too hard on yourself when you do slip though. We drill into our kids about learning to control themselves, their behaviours, yet even the most consistent parent loses control sometimes. Luckily kids are very forgiving. Especially after you talk about what happened, apologize and have a cuddle. Annie is lucky to have you and Heather.
Kristafied says:
Oh, goody, another parenting topic about which people can get nasty and self-righteous on each other. Sigh.
Annie says:
I agree. This topic NEVER stays civil. Bottom line: We all have a childhood. We carry on good and bad things from that period in our life. Each child is different and will respond to different types of punishment. I know parents who spanked on a regular basis and their kids were TERRIBLE. And I know parents who never spanked who had kids who were angels. AND VICE VERSA. My mom was a spanker and a yeller. Not abusive or out of control but I have memories of spankings and being yelled at. I also had a really wonderful childhood full of love. I always knew I was loved and felt it. I am now a mom to 2 boys. And I am a spanker and a yeller. I have rarely had to spank my oldest and he HATES being yelled at. And I ALWAYS feel guilty after I yell:( My youngest (age 3) doesn’t respond to EITHER. Oh wait, he yells back at me! So I try to count to 10 or 20 or 30. I try not to yell or spank. I wish I knew what was the best way. I think we all have the same goal. To raise great kids. No reason to attack each others parenting.
Joy says:
Totally against spanking or hitting. I hear a lot of garbage about only doing it with love. I call bullsh*t. A great book is How to Talk to Kids so Kids Will Listen, and Listen so Kids Will Talk. It goes into how certain methods of punishment (punishment and discipline are 2 different things) cause kids to A) get mad at you instead at the unfairness, B) hope that they will get sick, get cancer, or die so that then their parents will feel guilty for having done that to them, C) feel that they’re horrible, worthless, and you don’t love them. I would rather discipline (teach) than punish. Maybe that’s just me.
Em says:
I was spanked some, and slapped exactly once. Spanking was always clothes on, smack on the butt. The one slap was the first time I swore at my mom. I was always given a warning before the spank and it was always just that, a spanking. I was not abused, I don’t hit, I never got in trouble as a child for violence and I think the spanking did me good. Will I spanking my own kids? I don’t know. Kids can’t rationalize like adults, don’t understand consequences (like death or dismemberment) and are compulsive. So if my child is doing something especially dangerous I may spank (my bro got spanked a number of times for sticking things in the outlets – he was old enough to know that he shouldnt do that but didn’t understand being electrocuted- I think a spanking was a better punishment then letting him get shocked) but I would never ever use an object to hit my kids with.
My clearest memories are awesome – drawing airplanes and doing science experiments with my dad; smuggles with my mom, cooking, pancakes Saturday mornings… That’s what I remember from my childhood 🙂
Rebecca says:
I’ve read through most of these arguments, and here’s the thing: All of our kids are different. My kids aren’t your kids and what works for yours will not work for mine, and vice versa.
My daughter has always been EXTREMELY argumentative and ‘in your face’- even since she was a toddler (and no, she didn’t grow out of it) We’ve even taken her to a child psychologist to give us tips on how to handle her because nothing we did with her work. We spanked, we took away toys, we did short time outs, long time outs, lectures, silent treatment, threats, ignoring the behaviors, positive attention- seriously.. name it, we did it.
I walked away realized a few things: 1.) her fiercely independent nature and stubborn streak, as maddening as it is now, will get her far in life later on and 2.) although sometimes effective, spanking her didn’t work any more or any less then the other forms of punishment. My husband was a lot harder to get to realize that then I was, but essentially, for her- it didn’t work. FOR HER. My 2 year old son? I could look at him wrong and he bursts into tears. If I ever spanked him, I couldn’t imagine his reaction.
All kids are different, and although I wholeheartedly agree with the oxymoron that is “I’m going to spank you to teach you not to hit”- and I think, generally, there are more effect ways of discipline. BUT I also think there are times and places when nothing else will get through to a child. All children are different, thus the NEED for different parenting styles. I make it a point to try and not judge other folks parenting styles for that reason.
Rebecca says:
*wholeheartedly agree that the idea of spanking to teach a kid not to hit is completely ridiculous- you can’t spank your child and expect them NOT to mimic you in some way.
Kerry says:
Ask 10 different people about their experience of being spanked, and you’ll get 10 different answers. My dad, for example, exploded into fits of rage all the time and spanked/hit us in anger. Obviously, I hated him for a long time. My babysitter would spank us with a wooden spoon sometimes, but I have no bad feelings about that- whenever I think of her I have warm, cozy feelings. Obviously, spanking on a regular basis, making a child pull down their pants, smacking them on the face/head, hitting them just because you’re angry, or as punishment for a simple mistake is abuse.
Clearly, most of the people agreeing with spanking here aren’t power-hungry sociopaths who enjoy hurting their children. It’s used as an absolute last-resort measure to stop a child from immediate, life-threatening danger. Pain is a God-given reflex to danger.
nichole says:
I was raised by two psychologist, who happened to
incorporate spanking into their discipline routine. We were only spanked when we were doing something dangerous (e.g. reaching up on the stove, playing with a light socket cover…and it was either a pop to the hand or an open-hand swat on the bottom). It happened very rarely and because of this it usually resulted in one-trial-learning.
As a psychologist myself I work very hard to remain neutral when disciplining my child. I keep my voice calm and neutral and fall back on my training a lot. There was one time, however, where I did use corporal punishment with Ellie…without even thinking twice about it prior to it happening.
We were remodeling her room when she was about 10 months old and kept everything close up bc of the various remodeling hazards, and I had to move a box in the room. She had been preoccupied with the tv, and I hadn’t noticed that she followed me in. As I turned around to walk back out I noticed that she had not only follows me in, but was standing in front of an uncovered light socket and reaching for it. I remember going cold in panic and screaming out “no!”, and popping her hand (I clapped my hand around hers with about the same force as I do when we play patty cake…it made a loud “pop” sound, but it wasn’t at all forceful).
The terrified look she gave me instantly broke my heart and I cried with her for a good 20 minutes and we talked about how it was an “owwie”. I hadn’t ever set out to spank her, I guess I fell back on the way I was raised.
To this day, that is one of the moments in raising her that I question the most. Following that one trial, she has never touched a light socket again…and we’ve been able to use “no, owwie” with the same effects. But follwing that one trial…she will tell other kids “no, owwie” if they go by a light socket…which kind of kills me a bit that remembers that instant so clearly.
Laura says:
My opinion is that spanking is wrong. I just cant see how it is an acceptable form of discipline. We have found other ways to handle our toddler. Time outs and taking away favorite toys has worked just fine. Spanking just does not work for me – I want to teach my children not to hit others in any kind of conflict and I dont think their immature brains can understand/distinguigh the difference that adults use to justify between hitting and spanking.
With the example of kids running into traffic/parking lots, I could think of another way to handle it…for young kids (under 2) who hate being carried maybe I would say “if you run away from mommy I will carry you the rest of the way” They have to earn the right to walk with me by behaving nicely. For an older child who understands, I would find a consequence that mattered to them and enforce it right away. Take away the toy you just bought them, etc. I know some will say that Im naive, but its just my opinion – a young child who runs away from you around cars, obviously doesnt understand danger, so how can they understand spanking as a consequence.
Last night my toddler had a melt down tantrum at bedtime and I took away all his teddy bears while he stood on his bed screaming and I told him calmly he would get them back when he laid down quietly. He laid down, stopped crying and I read him story then brought all his teddies back and he went to sleep. I have found that I just have to find my child’s “currency” and be consistent with following through on my threats.
Abby C. says:
“Some of my clearest memories of my childhood are the times I got spanked or slapped, and I don’t want Annie’s clearest memory of me thirty years from now to be a time I raised a hand to her. ”
THAT to me is the biggest reason not to spank. Well-put, Mike.
FYI, I came from a family where my parents made a marriage vow never to spank their children. From my entire childhood, the one, single time my father lost control and spanked me still is a vivid memory, even now that I’m 30.
For those skeptics, my brother and I turned out fine. Both of us are now grown, married or engaged (he’s married, I’m engaged), graduated college and have careers of our own. Our parents used time-outs with us, and later, grounding and removal of priveledges. It worked. You can make it work, and your kids will be fine.
Ali says:
I have only ONE problem with spanking-doing it anger. I believe THAT is where the “abuse” word comes into play. However, I believe spanking does have it’s place and is necessary sometimes. My oldest daughter is the most stubborn girl I know. We would try and talk to her about it, scold her, explain it to her, take away her toys, etc. and nothing worked. She didn’t care. Spanking was the only thing that seemed to get her attention and even then she would turn around and look at me saying “That didn’t hurt.” With my youngest, all we had to do was ask her to go to her room and she would be in tears, completely remorseful. It really depends on the child. Each child is different, therefor the way in which you discipline each of your children often ends up different. What works for one, may not work for another. I love my children more than anything and they know that, whether I spank or not.
mythoughtsonthat says:
Let’s see: It’s ok to do something to children that it would NEVER be ok to do to adults. Hmmm….
Lauren says:
A bit of me feels like I shouldn’t be commenting here because I don’t have kids (yet), and obviously I can’t say for certain what sorts of discipline measures I will use because I haven’t met my kids yet- I don’t know whether they will respond more to loss of privileges, time-out, etc.
But.
I have spent a lot of time babysitting and working in child-care establishments, and you can always tell which children are spanked at home because they refuse to behave for any other authority figure. Spanking seems to create a mentality for the kids where, as long as they are not being spanked, they feel they aren’t doing anything wrong. And since people who work in childcare can’t (and wouldn’t anyway) spank a child, it is incredibly difficult to enforce basic rules.
I’m also one of the people who was occasionally spanked as a child. It was rare, and I think with the intention that I would associate spanking with something I should never do again. Well, I haven’t the least idea what I did to warrant the spanking (which continued until I was about 10) but I do remember the feelings of abject humiliation and frustration. As someone smarter than me once said, “people will forget what you did and what you said, but they will never forget how you made them feel.” My mom views our relationship much more positively than I do, and I think that is because she doesn’t empathize with the emotional pain of how she punished me. Interestingly enough, she has a terrible relationship with her own parents- which she blames on how they disciplined her when she was a child.
Sarah G says:
Lauren, I really valued your input on this. As parents we don’t always hear this point of view, but it’s definitely valid and useful.
Ashley says:
I hate posts like this. We all go into it knowing that no one is going to agree, yet we sit here and bash each other anyway.
Chill out and move on.
Amy G. says:
Some could argue that any form of punishment, either physical (spanking) or emotional (isolation, or it’s cuter term “time out”) is abuse. Is one way any better than the other? What way is “right”, and who gets to make that desicion?
Rachel C. says:
I do not have children, so I am not sure if I will spank or not. I just know that I was spanked as a child and it is not my most vivid memory. I do remember it, but I remember more that my parents taught me right from wrong and always encouraged and supported me. When I was a brat they let me know it and I am glad for that. I do not like these posts where people are forced to take a side and hurt others for simply raising their child they way they see fit. My mom spanked me and *GASP* did not breast feed me. That was what was best for her and for me. Everyone is different. It’s time to support each other and stop acting like bullies on the playground.
Jess says:
I don’t have children. I was spanked as a child. Not on a daily basis, but there were times I really was horrible. I’m not a serial killer, I didn’t hit others in school growing up. My report cards all said I was very imaginative and talkative.
At 29 I have a great apartment with a great roommate. A boyfriend who treats me wonderfully, a full time job, never did drugs, barely drink alcohol. A college degree. Did those spankings affect me? No. My brother? I don’t believe so, he too has a college degree, full time job, etc., and as far as I know is not a serial killer.
I am from thinking of not spanking my kids but if I find my kid sticking a fork in an electrical socket or trying to throw the cat down the stairs, I don’t really think a talking to and time out will work. Maybe by the time I have kids the punishment will be no time transport or something.
My point? It will always come down to the parents. No matter what the kid will always blame mom and dad and people will blame mom and dad. If a kid is bad in a store you hear mutterings of “she/he should spank that kid”, if a kid is violent and harms another they blame the parent. What people don’t realize is, maybe mom and dad are doing the very best they can and didn’t have the best to learn from. We shouldn’t judge each other. I don’t judge how people raise their kids because I don’t see every intimate moment of their lives. And I hope when I have kids I won’t be judged either.
Kristin says:
I got spanked occasionally as a child, and I turned out fine. I don’t feel that it traumatized me, and it certainly did not leave me fearful of my parents. That said, when I have children of my own I don’t think I would use spanking as a form of discipline as often as they did. I see it more as a last-ditch resort, when nothing else has worked or when a situation has become dangerous. For example, I worked as a nanny for several years and when the little girl I watched was about a year old, she repeatedly went over to an outlet and tried to unplug a lamp that was plugged in there. I tried removing her from the situation with a sharp “No!” and distracting her with toys, books, bringing her to another room, etc but nothing worked. She was determined to pull the cord out. After half a dozen attempts to keep her away I finally slapped her hand. It wasn’t hard enough to make her cry, but it certainly got her attention and she didn’t try to do it again. At that age, you can’t tell a child “Don’t do it, you’ll get hurt.” They don’t have the capacity to understand that they could be electrocuted or pull the lamp down on their head. But they remember being slapped for the behavior and often that is enough to discourage them from doing it again.
When she was a little older, about 3, she started trying to pull away from me while crossing the street or walking through parking lots when we would go for walks. The first time she did it, I told that she was always to hold my hand while crossing the road and if she tried to get away from me, we could turn around and go home instead of to the playground where we were headed. Guess what? Three days in a row she pulled away from me while crossing the road. Each time, as promised, we went home but it had no effect on the behavior. The next time she did it, I told her if she tried it again she would get a spanking and we would go home. Sure enough, she did it again. I gave her one firm smack on the bottom, again not hard enough to make her cry but it certainly startled her, and we went home. The next day as we were walking to the park she stopped at the corner, grabbed my hand, looked at me and said “remember when you spanked me?” Never again did try to pull away from me while crossing the street. If I had to make the decision all over again, I wouldn’t change a thing. I sleep a lot easier with the knowledge that I *might* have caused some psychological damage than I would if she’d been hit by a car on my watch. Sometimes simply revoking a privilege taking something away, or a time out isn’t effective in stopping a behavior, especially in a child not old enough to understand the consequences of their actions. A 3-year-old does not have the capacity to understand “You might get hit by a car” or “You could get killed.” I don’t agree with spanking a child for not picking up their toys or small things like that, but if it stops them from repeating a dangerous behavior I’m for it.
Fiona says:
I’m disgusted that some people think it is OK to hit (spank/pop….whatever you call it – it’s hitting at the end of the day) a child.
DISGUSTED to my very core.
If another adult (husband/wife/friend/colleague/person in the street didn’t do as you wanted them to, would you hit them? No. Why? Read on:
1. Because they’d sue you and you would be done for assault. Because that is what it is. Assault. Unfortunately children have no voice and it seems, no laws to protect them from violence by their carers.
2. Because they’re your own size and you’d be SCARED that they would hit you back.
Do any of you who have commented in favour of corporal punishment like being hit? Even if it was ‘measured’ by someone ‘in control’. I don’t think you do! I especially don’t think you’d like being hit by someone three times your size. Your child cannot defend themselves. They are at your mercy….and you abuse this unequal balance of power to the very worst degree.
I was hit as a child, as was my brother. My mother watched it all happen. The relationship I have with my parents is irreversibly damaged because of this. As others have said, the clearest memories of my childhood are when I was being physically and violently abused (make no mistake – hitting children is ABUSE).
My daughter is usually well behaved and I’m delighted to say that it is not because she is scared into being so. She is 23 months and of course she is going to be naughty sometimes. She is finding her feet, learning what is acceptable and what is not, testing her boundaries. All children do this. It’s normal. It’s our job as parents to guide them, but there is never, ever, any need to hit a child. Apart from the physical pain you inflict, violence can break a child’s spirit. There are so many other ways of dealing with children’s misdemeanours.
It makes me sad to the depth of my soul that so many people think it’s OK. There is no such thing as a perfect parent. But can’t we strive?
I have had to stop reading the comments…some of them are so upsetting…..but thank you to Mike for bringing up this issue. I hope that at least one person who thought it was OK to hit their child has changed their minds because of this post and the comments.
Karen says:
To be fair, I’m not going to read the comments because I can already predict that it’s likely just a heap of people berating each other for their choices. I’m just stating that in case I repeat something someone has said.
To put it frankly, I believe it’s age and situation dependent. I don’t believe in striking children out of anger or as punishment even though this happened to me a handful of times as a child and I haven’t suffered as a result, nor has my relationship with my parents. To rule out all forms of physical correction, however, would be to remove the kind that I DO agree with, which is the ‘slap on the hand to prevent soldering it to the very hot oven door.’ As very young children explore the world around them, the one concession I make is the slap on the hand when they’re too young to reason with and you’re trying to avoid a far worse injury. When there at that age where ‘no’ is just a challenge and they’re hell-bent determined to do whatever they want even if it is likely to wind up electrocuting them. I don’t rejoice in the idea but I see its purpose. I also think that it means the child will eventually, and quite quickly, grow out of the need for it. I can also see that it would be personality-dependent and not suitable/necessary for some children, I’m just saying it’s about the only instance that I can think of where I would consider it.
More than anything, personality is going to dictate everything and using generalisations in debates like this never works. One child who was spanked could grow up violent, another might be the opposite. One child who was never spanked could be beautifully behaved, the other might be a monster. You can’t wield absolutes in debates like this as supporting evidence because there will always be a resounding amount of exceptions.
Of course, I could also throw the cat among the pigeons and tempt people to talk about the book, The Slap, in which someone ELSE disciplines another person’s child. I’m just not that devious…
Right?
Madi G. says:
Spanking is never, ever okay.
Those of you who spank and believe it’s acceptable or “different from hitting” — of course you believe this; you need to sleep at night. Those who say they spank while supposedly calm (“not in anger”) are even worse. Either you’re in denial or you’re incredibly inept in the parenting department, as any capable parent has many, many suitable alternatives in their punishment-and-lesson-teaching arsenal.
The fact that your child doesn’t respond to other parenting methods? That’s a huge reflection of you as a parent.
Parents are the child’s primary role models. Spanking tells the child that hitting is acceptable. Violence is *NEVER* acceptable. Ever.
Furthermore, it’s a breach of trust. I was spanked just a few times and I felt such a profound loss of trust for my parents. I would *never* do that to my children.
You spankers need to attend parenting class. There are much more effective ways to get a child’s attention or to teach a lesson via punishment. And then you need to attend a child psychology class, so you can learn about the negative psychological impact associated with striking a child. Physical violence permanently changes the chemistry of a child’s brain; you’re forever affecting your child when you hit.
Outside observer says:
All I can say is the readers of this blog have DANG good children!!! Not one person said that their kids were less than perfect whether they were arguing for or against spanking. It was all about how perfectly behaved and wonderful they are. Wonder if there are some exaggerations?!!
Fiona says:
Actually, I, who is AGAINST physical punishment, did….and I quote:
‘My daughter is usually well behaved and I’m delighted to say that it is not because she is scared into being so. She is 23 months and of course she is going to be naughty sometimes.’
Please READ the comments if you are going to pass judgement on them.
Amy says:
Was spanked/beaten as a child and as a result have NEVER hit my children. I too remember vividly the occasions my parents stepped WAY out of line and vowed my kids would have no such memories.
My kids are now all teens and GREAT kids. I like to think it had at least something to do with the fact that their parents learned to keep their tempers, (and hands,) in check and find more positive ways to reinforce GOOD behavior.
Connie says:
I think it is sad that in our society we justify hitting a child as a proper means of discipline when it is animal cruelty to hit your pet, spousal abuse to hit your husband/wife, assault to hit anyone over 18… the youngest members of our society are hit- bottom line- legally. And don’t tell me that you hit them to teach them… what are you teaching them? That if someone is doing something you don’t like it is ok to “teach” them a lesson. No matter how calculated, cold, and collected you are remember this: some of the world’s most infamous killers were also cold, collected, and calm when committing their crimes. They justified their violence as well…
Karen says:
Here is a situation from my past that I will open up for reflection.
My best friend had her son when she was 18 years old. It was a very foolish time of her life, she chose to get pregnant to save her relationship with a man who didn’t treat her right and had no interest in working when she was prepared to work two jobs to support them. Obviously, not long after her son was born very prematurely, she found herself in the situation of being a single parents at a very young age.
Before stereotypes kick in, let me assure you that she was and always has been an awesome mother. She continued to work as much as she was able to support them, always made sure her son was provided for in every way and definitely grew up in leaps and bounds as a result of having him. As proof of this, he is now a lovely, well-mannered, bright 16-year-old and she is a nurse who has recently built her own house. As much as she made very silly choices early on, she turned her life and his around and is now a resounding success story. Heck, she beat me to home ownership and a university degree!
When her son was two years old, the place she was living in had reasonably small flight of carpeted stairs. She was, naturally, renting at the time and, as a single mother relying on casual work and benefits, didn’t have a huge amount of choice though she did always manage to keep them in the private rental sector and outside of housing commission accommodation. These stairs lead to the upstairs but went around a corner so that there were about three of them just on the bottom section.
Her son ADORED jumping off them.
I sit here today to confirm that from what I personally observed, my friend tried so many things. Timing out, stair gates, (Heather might empathise with how horrendously difficult that solution was to get to work!), a playpen for him, other barricades, rewards for NOT doing it… The list goes on. In the end, it became a day-by-day battle. She sought the opinion of her doctor on his behaviour, looked at modifying his diet in case that was having an effect on his boisterousness, drove herself nuts trying to figure out how she’d wound up with a rubber daredevil for a kid but to no avail. Yes, some days it would work. Overall, however, the behaviour continued.
One day, and I was there to see this, after managing to nullify the effectiveness of all deterrents and barriers, he jumped down those three stairs yet again and in perhaps the most horrifying thing I have ever witnessed, unbalanced and sent himself flying headfirst through a window. I don’t know if any of you have ever watched a two year old go headfirst through a window but your initial reaction is something that doesn’t fade over time. As it happened, the huge, thick drapes had completely protected him and he came out of it with only the tiniest of scratches on his knee, of all places. He was shaken, yes, but no where near as much as we were.
I’m not going to actually say if it cured him of it because knowing how this ends isn’t the point of me posting this. I am not driving at any angle here, I am only asking what other people might have done either prior to that to prevent it happening at all or after it if it didn’t stop the behaviour. It has always had a huge impact on me, I remember it clearly as anything, and since I don’t have children of my own yet but know that my friend really did try a lot of things, I would find it valuable to identify stones that might have been unturned. So far in this thread, we have had a lot of outrage and indignation but since I certainly would prefer never to employ violence in my parenting, advice is imperative!
Thanks in advance for your thoughtful replies.
Mandy says:
I don’t live in the USA and where I live we give our children a smack or two if and when needed. We grew up that way, nobody turned into abusers or violent people and we raise our kids the same way. Children are not little grownups, the are children and need to be treated as such. Some posters here over analize things way to much.
Kayley says:
It disgusts me to see the amount of judgement being passed among parents in the comments section here.
I was spanked as a kid. And my mother will be the first to use the word “hit” too. Guess what? No emotional or psychological damage here! I’m a perfectly normal human being with no violent tendencies, a degree and a job! And somehow, just somehow, I’ve managed to make it all this time WITHOUT hitting ANYONE! Some posters on here would lead you to believe that’s a freaking miracle.
Every single parent on here that berates other parents who choose to spank need to take a step back and realize that every child is different and responds to different methods of discipline DIFFERENTLY. I don’t understand why this is so hard to swallow. Not every child who was ever hit is automatically a victim of abuse and I am actually offended that so many assume that to be true. I am also offended at the horrific comments pertaining to how spanking makes you a bad parent. I have the best parents in the entire world and I love them more than anything and would do anything for them. How dare you talk about someone’s parenting skills when you don’t know them, OR the child they’re parenting.
Sounds like a bunch of teen moms up in this thread. The world isn’t so black and white. Grow up.
Kayley says:
I’d also like to add that my earliest memories of my parents have nothing to do with their method of discipline. I had a perfectly healthy and happy childhood.
As for you guys, Heather and Mike. I’ve been following your blog for the last couple of years and honestly, I think YOU will know what’s best for YOU and YOUR babies when the time comes. Even if you don’t know what’s best at first, trial and error will get you there and that is okay. There is NO perfect way to parent, and your kids will constantly remind you of that. Your kids will constantly challenge you, and it’s up to you how you deal with it.