Annabel is getting more and more social at school. She’s a friend-lover just like me, so I know how much it means to her to have a group of pals she can count on. She’s starting to get invited to birthday parties and play dates and it’s all really exciting for her. It’s taken longer for her to get invited to things than I expected, and I think that’s partly my fault…I’m not very social at her school. As much as I love having friends, I’m afraid to make any new ones.
I’ve gotten to the point in the grief process where I don’t care if random strangers I interact with know about Madeline. I used to have a lot of trouble with the small-talk, “How many kids do you have?” question. Now, my answer depends on if I think I’m going to see the person again, if I want to get into it, etc. My standard answer to that question is a half-truth: I have two kids at home. It’s the answer I have to give to get through the moment, and I have stopped punishing myself for it.
The problem is the parents of Annie’s friends aren’t random strangers, and she might be building life-long friendships with these kids. When I accompany Annie to parties and playdates (we’re not at the drop-off stage yet), I am almost paralyzed with anxiety that a parent will ask if Annie has any siblings. I don’t want to lie to them, but if Annie’s friendships progress the parents will find out about Maddie because they’ll either come to our house for a reciprocal playdate, or Annie will tell them herself.
It’s just…I’ve been through this. A child’s death makes people uncomfortable – it scares them. It ends conversations and completely changes how people look at you. And when they don’t know you or have any history or context, friendships often end before they even start. Hell, I had existing friendships end when Maddie died. It’s hard enough for me and I’m a grown adult. I’m terrified this is going to impact Annabel (and James, soon enough).
So I’m wondering: what would you do if my daughter or son was your child’s new friend? How would you react if I told you upon our first or second meeting that my oldest child is dead? How would you feel if I didn’t tell you, and you found out later by some other means? Would you still invite my child to your parties? Would you still come over to our house?
I don’t want to make the delicate process of beginning friendships any harder for my kids. But. I don’t know what to do here.
LR says:
I don’t have kids and am pretty sure will not be having any. So, maybe my opinion is not really pertinent here. However, I figured I’d tell you anyway.
I can, as you mentioned yourself, imagine 2 scenarios. You either tell me during our first/second meeting. If you did, I’d be touched because you felt comfortable enough to share such a personal and painful information about yourself. Or I find out eventually, either from you or from Annabel, at this point I would still think that it is A-OK because it is a personal and painful piece of information that you don’t want to talk about/bring up. Either way, I think it is your prerogative.
In both situations, I’d say ‘I’m sorry’. I don’t understand what that must feel like because it has never happened to me. But I empathize. But as far as losing someone you love goes, I understand because my dad died when I was 4. But are they the same things ? Absolutely not. Will I share that bit of information about me (if and) when you bring up yours ? Absolutely not. Because as I said, while they are both losses, they are different.
Will it be awkward whenever it comes up ? Probably. And the awkwardness is not about what was shared but because I really cannot do anything. Will that make me end our friendship ? I’d have to be an idiot and I’m pretty sure I’m not.
LR.
Katrien says:
When my 5-year old daughter makes friends, it wouldn’t matter to me if I knew immediately or after a few playdates that there are other siblings at all. The fact of the matter is that she often choses friends herself with parents I do not know or even like… it doesn’t stop my kid or her friends to invite her or them over. She is now at an age where she likes to arrange it all by herself, which means that when I pick her up … she’ll immediately ask if so and so can come over. I seem to have very little to do with this whole friend process … Obviously I try to be sociable to the other parents, but I wouldn’ t worry too much about when or if you inform them of Maddie. Do whatever you are comfortable with. I think Annie and her friends will do just fine no matter what you do …
Becca Masters says:
Firstly, huge hugs
Secondly, if it was me, the. I’d simply say something along the line of “oh gosh! I’m so sorry to hear that!” Would it stop me from talking to you? Not at all. Would it stop me from wanting to form a friendship? Nope.
And if you didn’t tell me and I found out otherwise, I would simply ask. “I’ve just found out that you have experienced a loss, I’m so sorry that you’ve experienced that, id like to know about her, will you tell me?” would it stop me from being your friend or going to your home? Nope!
If someone is truly your friend then they will respect you enough to understand that sometimes it’s hard for a parent to broach the subject of loss, or that it takes time, or that some parents don’t want to talk about it. Everyone experiences grief differently.
If someone wants to be your friend, then it won’t matter what your past holds. They will simply be your friend no matter what.
Ashley says:
I have been in Annie’s situation, my older sister passed away long before I would ever know her and I was lucky to have a little brother. The only time my mom would tell people she had 3 children were people she was extremely close to. Most people (including my friends parents) wouldn’t have known about my sister unless I mentioned her. My parents never dissuaded me from talking about her though I know it was incredibly hard from them to talk about her.
But what is most important is if anyone doesn’t want their child to be friends with Annie because of what your family has gone through they are a terrible person and honestly Annie will probably be better off without that friend. While it might be hard, most parents are only going to be sympathetic and anyone who isn’t probably will not raise that sympathetic of a child. Nobody needs that, especially such a sweet girl like Annie.
Saskia says:
I’m in your position and in Annie’s and James’ position at the same time.
I had a brother who died from SIDS when I was 3, I don’t know if my mother ever mentioned him to strangers, I don’t think she did. But moreso because she could not talk about him and still can’t really today.
Close friends of mine know that I had another brother, but it’s not something I would tell strange people if they asked me about how many siblings I have got.
I’m in your position too since my daughter died last month and I’ve been wondering what I am going to tell people if they asked me if I had children. I haven’t been in that situation yet, but sooner or later I will have to face it. It feels wrong to say that I don’t have children, because we do have daughter, she’s just not here anymore. But at the same time I don’t want make people feel uncomfortable with the truth, which is also silly to worry about.
I guess you can imagine that your history would not be a reason to not invite your kids. And I would not be mad if you don’t tell the whole story initially if you don’t feel like telling it.
Vicky says:
Saskia, I am so very sorry for your loss.
Molly says:
I am so sorry, Saskia.
Jen says:
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Maris says:
Me too, deeply sorry
Damita says:
So sorry for your loss, Saskia.
Linnae says:
Likewise, I am also sorry to hear of the loss of your daughter. I’m glad this is a place where you can share that and know that, while most of us (me included) have NO idea what that must be like, you will still be supported.
JustAMom says:
So very sorry for the loss of your daughter. ((((HUGS)))))
Kristen says:
You are the mom of three beautiful children. Don’t let someone else’s hang ups become yours. Saying you have two children at home is a great way to answer without the fear of making the other person uncomfortable. Hugs to you!
Sheila says:
How would I react? Knowing me I would probably start to tear up am ask you all about her. But I’m a hormonal mess. Would I think it was strange – absolutely not. Brave is the word I would use am teach my kids to do it as well. My daughter has a classmate that lost his twin and he talks about his brother in class sometimes & it doesn’t bother the kids at all. I also agree that your kids will make friends before you even know the parents & you’ll know which ones you feel comfortable with to tell.
Hugs
Beth says:
I think it’s fine not to bring up Maddie early on, though it is possible, given your rather, um, distinct last name, some folks already know and aren’t bringing it up to you. I don’t expect to know all of the intimate details of my kids’ friends family lives. Heck, I only found out the name of the parent of one of my 8 year olds friends last week, and he’s been friends with the kid for the last six months. I have serious social anxiety that he isn’t plagued with. You and she are going to be fine. *hugs*
miriam says:
Yes, I think it’s quite likely they know who you are and the story of Maddie.
Kristen G. says:
You should be proud of your three children but I see your point where it can stop a conversation. My son Tyler has a girl in his class. She lost her baby brother before she was born. The only reason I know about it is cause she wrote a poem and read it to the class. Her parents are involved in the school but there is no awkwardness, however I’ve never really asked though. For what you feel is right. I mean dome might even read your blog already
defendUSA says:
I personally don’t discuss it. People close to me know. I never considered it an issue when helping the kids with play dates and such…maybe I’m weird. As for telling or not, it is about your comfort level. Yesterday a former client said that her Dad had passed and proceeded to tell me the whole story. I just listened and offered words I thought would help. Sometimes you’ll NEED to talk about it and other times not. I wouldn’t feel badly either way. Just let things happen, if you can.
Mijke says:
My 6 year old twins have a very good friend whose older brother died at birth. I didn’t know that when I first went over there with the kids for a playdate (they were four at the time), but I asked her mother about it when I saw a picture of her with her son. I think I asked her something along the line of “Which one of your children is that, M or L?” because I didn’t immediately notice he wasn’t alive when the picture was taken.
She told me who he was and what happened, and although it was hard to find the right words (or any, for that matter) to say to her at that moment, it didn’t for one second make me think “Oh boy, I’m never bringing my kids over again” or “I don’t want her daughter to be friends with my kids”.
I didn’t tell my own children about it because I didn’t know how much her own daughter knew about it. But since that playdate their friend told them herself, and our kids didn’t think any less of her either. They have never once felt uncomfortable about it.
My daughter does mention it from time and sometimes asks questions about it, but never in a ‘bad’ way. She’s still their best friend and my son is going to marry her he says (if she’ll have him).
If someone would only tell me about a loss after I’d known them for a while I wouldn’t feel offended or weird or anything. They themselves are the only ones entitled to choose if, when and how they want to share something that personal. If they don’t feel it’s the right moment, they can tell me whatever they feel is necessary to get through the moment. I won’t ever hold it against them.
If someone I don’t know very well asks me whether twins run in the family (or whether they are ‘natural’ twins), I will tell them yes too if I don’t feel like explaining how long it took us to get pregnant, how many treatments were needed and how much sadness that has caused us. That is my own story to share, and I am the only one who can make that judgement (apart from my husband and kids, that is). If people don’t respect that, I wouldn’t want to be friends with them anyway…
Eileen says:
That is such a difficult thing – I’m sorry. Either way, if my child was friends with your child, it wouldn’t matter to me when you told me about Madeline. If you told me right away, it wouldn’t freak me out or end the friendship. I would have an incredible amount of respect for you and be in awe of your strength. If you said something later on after our families got to know each other better, I would completely understand. It’s very personal and painful and I wouldn’t be upset at all to find out later. I would feel honored that you felt you could talk about Madeline with me as our friendship grew. If our kids were friends, then they’re friends and they would still be invited to playdates and parties. When you told me about Madeline would make no difference.
Deirdre says:
Honestly, I don’t think Annie’s friends’ parents will be impacted anything like *your* friends were when Maddie died. Her death and your grief were so overwhelming at the time that many of your friends rallied around you and….some friends faded away. But time and distance has made things different now. I think Annie’s friends’ parents knowing won’t be as difficult. It might be difficult for you to tell them and it may catch some of them off guard, but I think most will react in an acceptable manner. I think you choose on a case by case basis when to tell people.
Karen says:
Maddie’s passing is a personal thing to you and your family. You wouldn’t discuss your bra size with a person you’ve just meet, though your close friends might know!
I think saying you’ve 2 kids at home is ok. Its not a lie, it doesnt diminish Maddie’s memory but it does allow you space to develop a friendship built on you and who you are now, rather than things that have shaped you. (Does that make sense? Lol) In time, when people say whos that at a photo, you can say “Thats Maddie, my first born, who we died before Annie was born” and then carry on with what ever you were doing. Their reaction at that point will be totally about them and who they are!
And if it were me, well I wouldnt expect you to share your bra size on first meeting, I wouldnt expect you to have to share your family’s worst moments with me either. Those are personal and should be shared with whomever you can trust with the memories.
Jen says:
It would not bother me at all or interfere with our children’s friendship at all, regardless of when or if you ever told me. I do think there’s a strong possibility that Annie has already told her friends at school, and they went home and told their parents. Obviously this is not the same thing, but when my daughter started kindergarten, she met a new friend and would come home everyday, telling me about her new friend Sophie, how she and Sophie wanted to have a play date, and how Sophie had “2 moms, 3 grandmas, 2 dogs, a cat,” etc. Random chatter. Finally I saw Sophie and her mom at school one day, introduced myself and we started to set up a play date. She looked at me kind of nervously and said “I want to tell you I have a female partner,” and I said “I know. And Sophie has 3 grandmas, 2 dogs, a cat…..” And we just laughed. So that was kind of long winded, but just an example of kids talking about all sorts of things at school that we don’t know about.
There’s also the possibility that her friends’ parents have already read your blog 😉
Hang in there. I have no doubt you will handle things perfectly.
Ginny says:
I can’t speak for anyone else, but what makes me uncomfortable in this situation (I experienced it a few weeks ago) is knowing the immense pain that your loss brought you, and feeling like an “I’m so sorry” sounds trite and empty. I would NOT be uncomfortable having you as a friend or having your children be friends with mine. I would also not be upset if you didn’t tell me about your loss right away. I can’t imagine any sane person would be upset with that. It’s both extremely personal and painful, and there’s no right or wrong time to tell someone about it. You don’t owe anybody an explanation of your personal stuff, if you’ve got somebody new to your life expecting that of you and upset that you didn’t give it to them, then perhaps they aren’t the best friend to have. It would put me on alert for a shallow, nosy gossip type. If something like this happens, try not to take on guilt that ‘you’ somehow ruined something for Annie or James. Friendships don’t always work out, and that’s a lesson we all learn. (I honestly don’t think this will be an issue, though)
One issue you might run in to with younger kids is that their parents don’t want to discuss death with younger kids/don’t know how to explain it, and therefore don’t want it discussed. I’m not sure how you get around that, but I also think that most people realize that death is a part of life and a simple explanation shouldn’t be too hard to come up with.
It’s difficult to say how I’d react in your shoes, because I’ve never experienced the loss of a child, but what I THINK I would do is, after a few interactions with the other parent (assuming I was feeling emotionally strong enough), I would say something like, “Since Annie and _____ are becoming such good friends, I wanted you to know something about our family because I don’t want you to be surprised if Annie says something to ______”. Then I’d tell them as succinctly as possible about the family’s loss. You could also do it in an e-mail to keep from having to say it out loud to somebody who isn’t in your innermost circle of loved ones. Hope this helps in some way. Hugs to you.
Molly says:
I think there is no wrong answer here. If you told me you had two children, and I found out later you had another daughter who died, I would only feel compassion and understand your need for privacy.
I think what makes it tough about leading with it out of the gate is that conversations with other parents are often so casual. You’re usually standing around some where awkwardly and are frequently interrupted by your child. But if you also said to me you had two living children or two children at home, I would just accept that and figure you would tell me more when/if you were comfortable. There is probably an awkward 10 seconds while the asker of the question, who didn’t receive the “expected” answer formulates a response, but that’s ok. You are not responsible for their feelings, and anybody worth their salt will stick around.
I think you have to decide which feels most true to yourself and to Maddie and go from there. You’ll suss out the keepers that way 🙂
marcia says:
All of the responses have been great, but I think this one is my favorite. I was trying to figure out a way to say exactly what Molly said. I truly believe that people will see you all for the lovely people that you are and that it won’t matter “when” you decide to share Maddie with them — do what feels right for you! Much, much love to you!!
Julie says:
Anyone who judged you for telling or not telling is someone you don’t want to be friends with anyway.
Tracy says:
It wouldn’t matter to me whether I knew right away or not. I don’t think you need to tell the parents of these friends until YOU become friends with them. And the thing is, friends from preschool, unless they go to the same elementary school later or live on your block, are unlikely to become lifelong friends anyway. Just enjoy them like a vacation, not like buying a house.
Beverly says:
I would not feel badly finding out about Maddie many months after meeting you and Annie. I would handle it in the way that you feel most comfortable. It is hard to imagine that she would lose a friend because her older sister died but certainly not because I didn’t find out that fact at the the outset of a friendship.
Beth says:
I am a long time reader but I have never commented before. I found your blog through various other blogs I read and your story really moved me. Your children are beutiful and you are a very strong, courageous woman, I really admire you.
I am a primary teacher in the UK. I teach year 1 and 2 (children aged 5-7) but I’m not sure what that equates to in America. One of the children in my class, who I have taught for nearly 2 years now, had a twin who died the day they were born. He often mentions her, especially when we are praying for people (I work at a Catholic school). I agree – Annie has probably already mentioned Maddie to some of her friends, although they may not realise or remember. Some parents may already be aware of your situation, others will not. But they shouldn’t be bothered… It not for them to judge you on. It your decisions whether or not you tell them.
Before I was born, my mum had a miscarriage. Even though I never really understood what that was, as a child my mum must have told me because I remember telling my friends how I had a sibling in heaven. It was never a big deal for me.
Everyone has their own personal sadness at some point in their lives, I’m sure Annie’s friends parents will understand, whether you chose to explain about Maddie or not.
Hope this makes sense. Sorry for writing such an essay! I just really feel for you and your situation. Keep strong Heather, you are doing a fantastic job x
Mary says:
I think your blog has helped those of us who follow you understand how to be compassionate toward someone who has endured such a terrible loss. I wouldn’t care when or if you told me, but I know I would not turn away from your grief.
j says:
I know you wouldn’t want to dishonor Maddie by lying and saying you have 2 kids.. but at the same time if I was getting to know you and found out a long time after the fact I wouldn’t hold it against you at all. Of course I’ve never been in your shoes, and perhaps reading your blog made me more sensitive to the issue than I otherwise would have been but I wouldn’t expect anyone to be totally open from the start… and that’s kind of something I can totally see why they wouldn’t share until they trusted me. But it’s hard to make friends, so it’s possible it’s just them and has nothing at all to do with you. I sometimes feel like no one really wants new friends, haha.
Karen says:
The parents of my kids’ friends and I are cordial, and some of them have become friends of mine as well….but they come and go as my kids grow, change schools, etc.
I try to stay friendly with them, but if your kids grow apart, it is often a similar case with the parents.
I would not judge anyone in any way for sharing that information with me. I think we all have something we end up sharing with some people that stays a secret with others. For us, it is my son’s developmental issues. I find myself explaining away some quirky thing he does only to see that look on the face of a parent. That look that says, “oh, crap…my kid is playing with a retarded kid”. I hate that word but I hate the “look” more. My son is high functioning and few know there is something amiss. So, now I don’t say anything unless it is necessary. It is only shared on a need to know basis. lol.
It will never not be awkward but I think your initial idea of not sharing initially and then sharing should the kids come over to your home is a good one. I have had parents tell me thing in confidence much later, or after subsequent visits, that they wouldn’t tell me right away. Some opened up about infidelity, divorce, financial issues. While less heartbreaking than your story about Maddie, I have found that most people have layers and you have to peel they back as you get to know each other.
I would certainly not worry about them feeling like you were dishonest. Your business is yours.
Kate says:
I don’t think there is a right answer here, if you tell someone and they don’t want to have their child/children continue to play with your children then you are probably better off.
Melissa says:
I think you are completely in the right to answer how you want to answer depending on the situation. I, for one, would never NOT be friends with someone because they lost a child — are people really that cruel?! — but I do think it’s up to you how much you wish to divulge, and when.
I think it’s wonderful you do speak of Maddie here, keeping her beautiful memory alive. It’s part of the grieving process — yes — but also part of life, too. On the contrary, my aunt lost her first-born at 15 months back in ’75 due to a congenital heart defect and kept him –his life and death — a secret; my cousins never knew they had a brother til they were well into their teens. He was simply never discussed, ever. It was how they wanted to cope and family and friends respected it. Sadly, they just had to bury their youngest daughter, who was 31, a month ago today (following a 22-year illness) and seeing the grief on my aunt and uncle’s faces — knowing they’d done this twice now — was beyond comprehension. But this time, they can grieve outwardly … though I’m sure when new people ask my aunt how many children she has, it will be very difficult to answer. Having read your blog the past few years, I am more sensitive now when meeting new people and asking about their kids because you just never know what the situation is and don’t want to upset anyone. While children can be a common bond, it can also be a very touchy subject — understandably so!
There is no right or wrong way to handle; only what makes you all feel comfortable. Thinking of you!! And know you’re an amazing, amazing mama to Maddie, Annie, and James.
Jessica says:
If I found out, I would initially be very sad for you and say I’m sorry. I would then give you a hug and ask you to tell me about her. I would not be offended if you kept it from me until you were ready to talk about her. It’s your choice whom you tell and don’t tell. Don’t feel as if you’re required to mention that you lost a child. I think Annie is delightful and wish my children could play with her. They are very much alike. Alas, we live in Ohio.
I do have some experience with child loss, though. I know several people who have lost their children to heart defects and my five year old daughter has one, as well. Not everyone would act as I would. I’m so sorry you have to ask these questions. Good luck!
Angie says:
You are the Mom of 3 kids. That’s what makes you who you are. If the fact that one of them is in Heaven now makes someone uncomfortable that’s not anything you can help. It is a touchy subject but I wouldn’t think any less of a person who’s been through it. I would of course be curious as to what happened but that would be up to you to share if you wanted to. It definitely wouldn’t make me have any reservations that my child be friends with yours and wouldn’t make me have any reservations about being friends with you either. I would hope if we were going to be friends you would feel comfortable talking to me about ALL of your children. And frankly, I can’t believe that you could lose friends over this. Sad.
Melanie says:
When I was 3 my mom had a full term stillborn baby boy. I know it was different because although we all loved him, he didn’t live long enough for us to know who he was. I never really heard my mom talk about it although she did say years later that on his birthday she’d have a terrible feeling in the pit of her stomach each year before she even realized what day it was. She had another boy exactly 1 year and 1 week later and I always felt like he kind of replaced Charlie. But I still think about him a lot and mention it from time to time. It’s strange because my brother Derek wouldn’t be here if Charlie had made it and Derek is my favorite sibling… but as a 3 1/2 year old, I was devastated. I probably told a lot of people because I can remember telling people at the time that I was more heartbroken than my parents. Of course that wasn’t true – they just shielded me from their grief.
The point of all of that is that my mom never mentioned him in her # of children.
I have several friends who have lost children and the ones I’m closer to definitely keep their children alive in their memory and the memories of others. They talk about them often and I’m fairly certain they’d be open with having two daughters in heaven and two on Earth. But I have also had interactions with people I didn’t expect to build a relationship with that have very casually told me about the loss of a child. It wouldn’t change whether or not I wanted to be their friend (although the examples I can think of were mostly school mom’s that I only ran into every now and then), but I won’t lie and say that my heart didn’t break a little when they told me. I was very curious about what happened, although I didn’t ask, and if I see them again I will probably feel that same bit of sorrow for them, but it wouldn’t affect the way I treat them…
No one worth your time of day is going to think more or less of you for saying you have two children at home and not mentioning Maddie upon introduction.
Daisy says:
I hope if I was ever in that conversation that I was given just enough detail to not be left wondering what happened (long illness/car accident/act of violence) and I’d love if the person could end with something to let me know how to proceed- either “We try not to talk about it very often” (letting me know the subject is dropped)or “We try to honor her memory when we can, Annie loves telling stories about her.” (letting me know it isn’t taboo and I shouldn’t freeze if I accidentally bring it up or change the subject if Annie does.)
Daisy says:
Oh and as for your other questions- I wouldn’t care if you told me right away or a year later, and it wouldn’t change my opinion of anyone or affect any invitations in any direction.
Jen says:
You should tell them when you’re ready, in a way that feels right for YOU and YOUR FAMILY. I know it sounds trite, but if they are the type of person who is going to judge you for holding back on a topic such as this, or if they get truly upset that they first heard about it from Annie rather than you, then who cares if you have them in your life.
And while it’s clear you’re concerned that type of mentality could hurt Annabel and James in the short term (not invited to as many playdates, etc.), who knows what judgmental parents like that are teaching their children anyway. So in the long run, I’d be willing to bet that your kids will end up ahead.
Jane says:
Heather,
My kiddos are 6 and 7 1/2, and I have the same anxieties about making new friends. Both of my kids play lacrosse, and the parents of their teammates seem to have known each other for years, and I feel VERY awkward around them. You have my empathy for sure!
As to your questions, if I met you because our children were classmates or teammates or whatever, it wouldn’t change my opinion about you if you didn’t tell me straight away that your precious Maddie had died. It would absolutely not prevent me from including Annie (or James) in friend activities. If you wanted to share your story with me, that’s your business. I will admit, I would feel sad if you told me about Maddie. I likely would say “I’m very sorry” and I may go on to say “I hope you feel comfortable talking about Maddie with me–I’d love to hear about her when you’re ready.”
As other commenters have said, do what feels right to you. Sometimes we make instant connections with people and feel comfortable telling them things up front. Other times, that comfort grows over time. Trust your instincts.
Jackson says:
I think you are overreacting. Annie had a sister who passed away. You had a beloved daughter who passed away. If someone asks Annie how many siblings she has she will figure out how to tell the person. If someone asks you how many children you have you will say I had three and one passed away. The person may express sorrow for you and might ask how. My concern is that your fears and anxieties are going to make Annie very anxious. I think you are overconcerning yourself with your own anxiety and not the reality of people at a pre-school. Rumination causes depression and that is not where you want to be.
Susan says:
I didn’t read all the comments this time but I can only assume they are positive. As you get older, making new friends seems to get harder. Not quite sure why but that is what I have found. As my boys have become adults, I have seen some changes in friend groups, some positive and not so positive. Me, today, at my current age would have no issues with my child befriending your sweet Annie and would carefully feel you out to see what you were comfortable talking about and what you were not. I am trying to think back to my early 20’s and I still wouldn’t have had any issues but I probably could have said something stupid. You know how people mean well and they really do but sometimes something slips out that you really wish could be taken back =) I was well aware of death as an elementary child as I had a classmate that had leukemia. Matt was a sweetheart and came to school when he could, no hair and all. He battled that horrid disease for several years. I knew him from Kindergarten until he passed in 6th grade. And I still remember him today!!!
Susan says:
I, personally, don’t think it should impact these kinds of interactions at all. I mean, a loved one died in your family, and that fact alone shouldn’t stop parents from letting their kids play with yours (or stop the parents from interacting with you), and anyone that does draw the line there is bizarre IMO.
I’ve witnessed people open up their life story to my parent(s) after meeting them for all of 10 seconds, and it only bothered them because they wouldn’t stop bringing it up in vivid detail (like you wouldn’t believe) RIGHT away, barely pausing for breath. They literally would not change the subject, and started asking pretty invasive questions of my parents. They might have been very desperate for someone to talk to, but it was overwhelming. It wasn’t the fact that those things happened to them that was overwhelming, but the fact that that’s all they wanted to talk about upon first meeting a complete stranger that made it hard to handle (more of a social awkwardness in the presentation of these personal issues, NOT that they had personal issues; because who doesn’t?). You don’t strike me as that kind of person at all, so I don’t think that’ll be an issue. I think once they know you more as a person they will just remember that as being part of your identity, not just all you are (again, if someone can’t get past the lone fact that horrible things happen to people, that’s their problem).
Nellie says:
There is a mom whose daughter was in my daughter’s ballet class. I remember once just randomly mentioning to her how good her son was amongst his other sisters while the one was in class with my daughter. She answered that he wasn’t the only boy, he had a baby brother who passed away. My heart sank and I could see the sadness in her eyes and in her children. I didn’t change the subject but told her how sorry I was for her loss. I allowed her to either speak more about it or move the subject to something else. She moved the subject on and when I saw her again at our daughters’ Kindergarten Graduation, we speak more in-depth about her loss and I was happy, as sad and painful the subject was, that she shared her story with me. I don’t see her often but when I do, I don’t allow the saddness that hits me upon seeing her to show on my face. Instead, I follow her lead and have small talk conversation with her but know that if she ever needed a shoulder to lean on, I would be more than willing to be that someone for her, no questions asked.
Tamara says:
I think I would say thank you for feeling you could tell me about Maddie, and that I would like to see pictures of her sometime. And of course I would let my kids be friends with your kids. I would talk to them about Maddie too. I want them to be friends with who they would like to be friends with. And I want them to be kind children who have empathy for people.
Lanie says:
Oh Heather – I am sending you extra hope and hugs.
It is so complicated an bittersweet. I am at the same stage of the grief process as you – I tell people about Jake and Sawyer based on if I will see them again. It was completely in my control who knew and who did not – until I realized that our living twins were taking about their brothers at school.
The 1st time this happened we were have a 1st play date and the unknowing mother brought both her kids because my twins told her that they had a little brother the same age as her baby. The twins failed to mention that Sawyer was dead and not the greatest play date.
In the first few weeks of kindergarten the teacher mentioned to me what a great big sister my daughter must be because she is always talking so lovingly about her baby brothers (Jake would be older and Sawyer would be the baby brother but that is beside the point).
I now try to respect my grieving process when talking about Jake and Sawyer but I also consider the twins and what would be best for them. So far talking about their brothers is the way to go for us but I know just like everything else in life that might change. xoxo
Stacey says:
In my opinion, if anyone chooses to judge you or your family for who you’ve lost in your past then you do not need them in your lives. You might have to explain that to Annie, but she’ll understand the more she grows up. Unfortunately not everyone can handle the curve balls of life.
However I would never (I don’t have children) judge someone for their child passing… nor would I expect them to tell me up front. I don’t tell anyone my father passed away when I was 5 unless they ask about my parents. Then sometimes I’ll work around it (much like you) and use my step-dad (whom my mom is actually divorced from) in conversations. Family is what you make of it – dead or alive. Keep them close and private or discuss with the world. Do what you need to do to feel good with your choices.
Elizabeth says:
I have been in this exact situation. My daughter was in kindergarten, she invited a new friend over to play. I made a comment about them both being the oldest in their families. Sammy quickly stopped me and said, “I’m not the oldest, I have a big brother Nicholas who died when he was a baby.” She was so matter of fact and comfortable with it, that I was too. This was her life, this was her family. I spoke to her mother about it later and they have done such a wonderful job of teaching her about her brother and making sure she knows she can talk about him all she wants. She is now my 2nd-grader’s best friend and I wouldn’t imagine in all the world not inviting her back or continuing the fostering of that relationship.
RzDrms says:
I was at a large, noisy, picnic-type event last year, sitting with an acquaintance and her friend (a woman I’d just met), eating and making small talk amongst the craziness. In the course of conversation, I casually asked the 50-ish-year-old friend if she had any children. She answered without a hint of it not being true: “I have one.” The *instant* she said that, I thought of you and regretted my question. I KNEW that wasn’t the truth; I just had this *feeling*. She then told me a little about her daughter and about a grandchild. After she left the table a few minutes later, my acquaintance friend told me that her adult son had drowned a year or two prior in a questionable (and publicized) boating accident. I still have pains of regret to this day, mainly because of what I imagined her struggle must have been/must be to say out loud, “I have one.” I wish she would’ve said “I have two.” I would never want a parent to feel like they couldn’t acknowledge all of their children to me because of fear of how I might act, but I do see how one could be reticent to “get into it” over small talk.
Brenda says:
I have four healthy girls at home, but our son was stillborn. I usually say the same as you. I have four kids at home. My daughters, especially the youngest, like to talk about their brother in heaven. We talk about him often at home, so she doesn’t think anything of it out in public. Sometimes it is a little awkward when people find out for the first time. I have had people change the subject on me, but it hasn’t kept me from making friends. It is not a conversation I lead with though. I have a tattoo on the inside of my wrist with his initial, and that is a good conversation starter about him. Sometimes people are taken aback, but usually they are very kind and supportive. I have also been able to hear about other people’s experiences with losing a child this way. If someone really has a hang up about Maddie, it probably is someone that wouldn’t make a good friend anyway.
Kenda O'Mara says:
If anyone shied away from forming friendships with either you or Annabel due to you sharing or not sharing your family history, they quickly escalate to royal butthole status in my book. Frankly nobody has time for turds like that in their lives anyway… 🙂
Jane says:
How would you react if I told you upon our first or second meeting that my oldest child is dead? I have been in this situation. I think my reaction was that I was sorry for the family’s heartbreak, and thanking her for telling me because I know that’s probably not easy. How would you feel if I didn’t tell you, and you found out later by some other means? I would feel just fine. I think people tell what they want to tell (or not) on their own time. I just can’t imagine being offended that someone did not share this information with me. Would you still invite my child to your parties? Absolutely — and you for wine and fabulous dessert at my place too. Would you still come over to our house? Of course I would. I don’t think I would ACT any different toward you than any other mom friend. Mom friends get together so rarely, that I think having a light, fun time is most mom’s goals….I think because I am an over-the-top empathy person (I think it’s my Asian half, lol)…I would FEEL different — just that your loss would be on my mind sometimes — not all the time — cuz let’s face it — it’s tough to have deep thoughts with a house full of little ones around. I am a blunt person — I think I would just ask what would be most comfortable for you — how you would want me to interact — do you want me to ask about Maddie? Is it OK if I bring her up sometimes? Do you want me to steer clear of Maddie talk? What’s best for you? And then I would make sure to follow whatever your lead is… I would ask you to be blunt with me — if you’re having a crappier-than-normal grief day, just let me know if/how I can help, or if you need to go undercover for a while…And here is the advice you didn’t ask for — just be yourself. Be however you are on whatever day. That is not what breaks up friendships – -it is what builds them. (And if you being you destroys a friendship, then maybe that’s not a really huge loss…)Very brave of you to put these questions out here. PS — all 3 kiddos are so beautiful 🙂
PattyB says:
Be honest. If people can’t handle the truth, it’s their fault not yours. Annie doesn’t need friends who are being raised by people that don’t care to face a difficult situation just because they are uncomfortable. If it were me, I would just give you a hug because I’ve been in your shoes with my oldest daughter also having died. I get it. A lot of people also don’t have great first reactions to this type of news, so give people a second chance. As always, thoughts, prayers, and cyber-hugs, girlfriend.
Elizabeth says:
How would you react if I told you upon our first or second meeting that my oldest child is dead?
– Honestly, I would feel sorry that you lost a child. I probably wouldn’t say much to it except I was sorry. I wouldn’t let it affect our budding friendship though. Just when you lose a child, you don’t need to lose friends too.
How would you feel if I didn’t tell you, and you found out later by some other means?
– Depends on how close we had become. If we still has just met I would just figure that it was too painful to bring up. If we had become close friends I would feel a little hurt that you felt you couldn’t tell me but I would still understand why you didn’t tell me.
Would you still invite my child to your parties?
-Definitely! If our children got along really well and were friends, why not invite them over.
Would you still come over to our house?
– Yes. I would definitely come over.
I am truly sorry for your loss. I haven’t ever been through it but I have some friends that have lost children. I don’t see how people could drop you as a friend because of it or other parents keep your child away from theirs because one of their siblings is gone. You have three beautiful children by the way 🙂
SJM8129 says:
I would just say I have 2 kids at home if initially asked and I felt comfortable later on sharing, I would explain further. You never know people’s reactions! They could be uncomfortable if you tell them too soon as an acquaintance or they might be awesome. Either way, I think it might also be burdensome/exhaustive to you to have to explain that right off the bat each time. Madeleine is an important piece of your family and waiting to tell someone about her doesn’t diminish her role or importance in your family. Don’t feel guilty over that, if that’s the case. Additionally, Annie may tell people and that’s okay, too. If a parent asks because they’re confused, you could always explain then. Them talking the step and asking also indicates a comfort level to discuss further details!
You’re a great mom! Do what’s best for you!
Rachel says:
My oldest daughter is 3.5 and I would be very sad to hear that you lost your child if our girls were friends. I think being up front and honest from the get go (or as soon as it feels right for you) is the best approach. If I found out from someone else that your child passed away after we had spent time together I would probably be consumed with worry. Worry that I may have said something hurtful because I did not know all you’d been through… I have a foot-in-mouth complex that is well earned and it’s something that gives me anxiety. I’ve mistakenly opened my mouth and said something jokingly only to find out later that it made me look like a complete asshole because I didn’t have all of the facts. I think knowing up front would not cause me to pull away or keep my child from befriending yours. I would pull away if I thought I’d mistakenly said something when I did not know what you’d been through that might have been hurtful or inappropriate.
If you are open about what you’ve been through… not saying that you have to share more than you are comfortable with…. but if you were to tell me even an edited version of what you’ve said in this post? I would feel honored and happy to let our children become friends.
Steph says:
When my first child was in preschool, another mom answered the question by divulging that she had lost a child. It did not affect whether I wanted to be friends with her. We became good friends. It is totally your call when or if to let someone know of your loss. I think it might be harder for some people to deal with if your loss had happened very recently. As a mom you might worry, but at this stage and in Annie’s circumstances, I don’t think it should be a problem for her. You have done so well with your sweet Annie.
Amanda says:
I honestly and truly think you will find that others will do one of three things: 1) Acknowledge the loss, ask a few questions and then move on and either not mention it again or provide you wonderful support 2) Stare blankly and not know what to say or (these are people I don’t like) or 3) You will find that they too have a loss and hopefully you’ll both provide each other support.
I’d like to say something from the other side of the equation though. Both of my siblings died when they were young children. My whole life I was the one ‘that her brother/sister died’ because EVERYONE knew it. It was nice to finally get away from that when I got older. I could control who I told and when. Sometimes I will tell people, sometimes not…it’s my choice.
Not everyone needs to be knowledgable about everything in your family just like Annie and James won’t want to tell everyone about their sister. It’s not shameful, it’s not ignoring Maddie, it’s just letting Annie and James be themselves and letting relationships happen.
Colleen says:
Your strength still amazes me Heather. My daughter is 6 and we actually had that happen. She came home from a birthday party and said “Did you know Faith and Maddie had another sister but she died when she was 1”. I’ve spoken to the mom countless times and it was never mentioned before. The next time I seen the mom I thanked her for having such a great party and said “As well, i’m very sorry to hear you lost a daughter.” She simply gave me a hug and said “thank you for acknowledging that”. It does not change my preception of her, it will not change going for playdates with their family, everything will remain exactly the same. Everyone deals with grief differently and those of us who haven’t experienced that tragedy have to accept that. If people are uncomfortable or treat you differently because you lost a child, they aren’t worth being friends with. Obviously this is just my opinion. 🙂
Elise says:
I think time and proximity are your friends here. For others, the fact that Maddie died before either of your other two kids were born makes it seem like a long time ago. There are no awkward conversations for their kids to have, it’s not something Annie experienced directly. Honestly, unless you make it the focal point of conversations and events, I think people will accept it as part of who you guys are as a family.
Jess Z. says:
Here’s what I would do: If Annie and my son became friends and wanted a playdate, and you told me your oldest child had passed away, I would not have anything but compassion for you. I would let you talk about it if you wanted to, and if you didn’t, that would be ok too. If you hadn’t told me, but I found out later, I would think no less of you, and would probably think you just didn’t want to talk about it. However, I might ask out of compassion, and let you know I am here to talk whenever you need me. I would also, always always always, invite Annie over for playdates and birthdays, and send my son to your house as well. It would not change the way I think or my actions just because you decided to not divulge every detail of your family.
My mom passed away almost 11 years ago, and I used to struggle with telling people. Well, I still do sometimes. It’s not easy, and it is something that defines you no matter if you like it or not. But it’s not your whole life story, and you have many other aspects that define you and your family as well. If someone asks you how many children you have, you say 3. It’s your choice to explain further, and I say use your gut instinct, but don’t leave Maddie out of the numbers just to try to protect the other person.
GreenInOC says:
If you told me I would tell you how sorry I was and try to gauge if you wanted to share more. If I got the feeling that you didn’t I would not ask any questions. If I did, I would ask questions along the lines of “what was her name? when was she born? what was she like?”, etc…
A long time ago, I started working with a woman who I didn’t have too much interaction with. One day I was at her desk and I noticed that she had a new picture up of an adorable baby girl. Since she only ever spoke about her son, I assumed it was her niece, etc. I asked and she shared that it was her daughter, her daughter’s name and that she had died when she was 9 months old. I asked her questions about her daughter and she also shared what had happened.
Years later she told me that I was the only person to ask her questions and speak her daughter’s name and that it meant so much to her. I’ve never forgotten that and try to use that experience to gauge how other people would like to proceed.
If I found out later that you had not told me I would not have any reaction to the information being withheld – it’s very intimate and understandable not to share until you want to. If I found out through Annie or James, I don’t think I would say anything to you about it at all because I would respect the fact that you hadn’t told me for whatever reason and I wouldn’t want violate that.
Rachel says:
You should do whatever feels most comfortable or right to YOU. The sad reality is that whatever discomfort the other parents will feel will be brief and exceedingly minor and irrelevant compared to the deep grief that you have to live through every single day of your life. YOUR feelings are the priority here.
To answer your question – the way you approach this would have absolutely no effect on my feelings for you or towards your child’s friendship with my kids. And many of the kids and parents will already know – I think it’s unlikely Annie hasn’t mentioned it. At least in our pre-school, they are encouraged to talk about themselves and their families…
Michelle says:
Oh Heather, this breaks my heart for you! If you told me of the loss of Maddie it would make me try even harder to extend kindness and friendship towards you and Annabel (and James 🙂 ) If you didn’t tell me and we forged a friendship, and if it was still early on in that friendship, I wouldn’t be offended in any way, shape or form if you didn’t tell me of your loss. I may be a little hurt if we’d been “new” friends for a long time and you didn’t tell me, only because I’d feel like if we were good enough friends I’d hope you could trust me, count on me and depend on me to talk about such things as loss. Also, because I’d worry and rehash our past interactions hoping that I didn’t say/do or insinuate anything your way that may have hurt you regarding your loss. However, even if this scenario happened and you didn’t tell me until later, it wouldn’t change my behavior towards you or your kids. It’s like I always tell my kids, “Be friends with those that want to be friends with you, instead of chasing after people trying to make them be your friend when they don’t want to.”
Paige says:
Everyone has wonderfully covered the aspect of the loss of a child and the many ways it can be handled. And I say this as the daughter born after a stillbirth and as a mother who suffered a miscarriage between my two children. Truly, the good people will shine and make themselves obvious and respect however you choose to handle it; the jerks will be jerks.
But one important aspect of this is just the difficulty in making new “grown-up friends” via your kids. We moved 2 1/2 years ago to a new town with our 2 small children and only NOW are we making friends that aren’t just other grown ups we chit chat with during playdates. It’s hard! And beyond grappling with dealing with the Real Issues in one’s life and how to share, all of the old teenagery feelings bubble up and rear their heads – are we “cool” enough? Do they think we’re too permissive as parents? Are we the hard-a$$es? OMG, WHAT IF THEY DON’T APPROVE OF JUICE BOXES? Annie’s only been in school a short time – and you were riding out a rough pregnancy and a newborn for so much of it so far – give yourself time! I’ve really pushed myself in the past few months to “put myself out there” with school stuff – signing up to work the book fair, reading to his class, being the parent that takes him or her to birthday parties. It takes time, but you find your group – and often it melds nicely with your kid’s choices, too! (and at this age, you still get to exercise some veto power! No “mean girls” in my house! And yes, they exist in preK.)
You are so gracious, Heather, in dealing with your feelings and those of the people around you. Bear that in mind and don’t beat yourself up about what people might think. And you sharing may open the door for them to do so in return; I have found that time & again when I share our struggles getting pregnant as well as our miscarriage. Sadly, it seems many families have experienced loss, and many are afraid to discuss it for fear of being hurt all over again or out of shame. You’ll make the right decision and no doubt Annie and James will attract amazing friends and families into your circle.
Gwen says:
I think that if you told me right away, I’d say I was terribly sorry, and then we’d either be friends or not. I’d try to be sensitive about it, and it definitely wouldn’t make me not want to be friends with your family. If you didn’t tell for a little while, I’d be okay with that. I’d understand if it wasn’t something you want to discuss right away. And it wouldn’t affect my kids being friends with Annie or James. If we’d been making friends ourselves for a while, and we’d had dinner/drinks or something several times…and THEN I found out from someone else…honestly, that would be awkward. I’d second guess if I had said something insensitive, and I’d think that you didn’t want to be good friends with me or else you would have let me in on it. I’d try to be understanding, but it would probably limit how close you and I would be. But it still wouldn’t stop me from letting my kids play with your kids. And if you told me yourself, after several get togethers, I’d be fine. It’s understandable that you would want to get to know a person a little better before opening up about that.
I’m sad for you, though, that you have to even think about how people will react to such sadness.
Stacy says:
Hi Heather,
I would imagine this is very difficult to navigate for you. I’m sorry! My oldest daughter’s BFF had her little brother die of cancer. I found this out after they first became friends. If anything I was glad that I was aware because I think it made me much more sensitive to her home dynamic. I won’t lie, I did look at them differently, but I think in a way of more understanding. Not in a bad way! My daughter’s BFF speaks of her brother as if he is alive, and never about him dying or being sick, so I think knowing is a good thing. Her mother talks about him all the time, but more in regards to what he went through and losing him. She says talking about him comforts her and her biggest fear is that people will forget about him. I’ve seen her right and introduction go into how many kids she has and about him dying, into great detail of the specifics. I’ve seen the shell shocked looks on people’s faces as they are learning this information within seconds of meeting her. I can see how this might scare a person off. I think you’re in completely different places though as I don’t imagine you ever doing that. I think any decent person would understand your go to answer of “two at home” when learning later about Madeline. I think it’s completely understandable not to divulge information that may make you feel emotional in a public setting. If later on there is a moment where you feel more comfortable to tell, do so. I think it all boils down to what is best for you, Mike, Annie, and James. The death of a child may make someone feel scared and possibly intimidated when interacting because they don’t want to say the wrong thing. Any decent person though would take your lead and see what’s acceptable. Madeline is a beautiful part of your family, your heart, your life. I truly believe that people that are worthy of being in your life and your kids lives will recognize that and be honored to know about her. I know I am.
Sonya says:
Heather, if I met you at a party or on a playdate with our children, and you told me about Maddie, I’d say “I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine how hard that is” because I can’t. And I’d probably ask what Maddie’s name was if you hadn’t shared that already, because she deserves to be remembered. I’d feel sad for you, but glad you chose to share something so personal with me.
I might not know what to say next, so I might tell you about my Grandma, who had 10 children, but the first and oldest girl passed away at 2 months of age. For the rest of her life, when people would say she had 9 kids, she always corrected them. She always counted Mary Evelyn. Her mother’s ring had 10 stones on it. She never got over missing that baby, just as you will always miss Maddie.
None of that would stop me from being your friend or from letting my daughter play with your children. If it would stop someone else, then they probably aren’t worth your time, although I know that might be hard to explain to Annie and James. All the hugs-hope some of what you hear in these comments help.
missy says:
You can’t control how parents or kids will react to the information. All you can do is prepare your kids the best you can – which you will find is never enough. I have three daughters (Insert obligatory sympathetic “aww” here). They are all much older than your kiddos, so I can say this with experience, childhood friends will come and go, then come and go again. And while I encouraged my girls to remain in contact/friends, they choose those close friends, I didn’t. I think you should take cues from the kids and the situation and approach it individually, case by case. Some situations may feel right to talk early on, others may not. And I think the parents will take cues from you, and the kids will take cues from the parents. So you can set the tone, the mindset and time for the discussion when/if it’s necessary. Personally, it wouldn’t matter to me, and I would encourage my daughter to continue the friendship until she chose to not be friends (you know, like if the friend wouldn’t share her candy or something really important like that). We have had similar situations with all our girls, and I took it as an opportunity to explain it to my girls with compassion and understanding. However, some people aren’t open and comfortable about that. So understanding their hesitancy will be your deciding factor in how to handle that situation.
Bryttani says:
Heather,
As a mom, I wouldn’t be bothered at all if I did not know this information about you, as the mother of my child’s friend, or knowing that my child’s friend has this scenario to deal with in life. I don’t believe these are grounds of swaying if we would be friends in life at all. The only situation to where I would think knowing about Maddie would be needed is if/how I would need to react to Annie if SHE brought it up to me or my daughter. Does that make sense? I would want to know how you, as Annie’s mom, would want me to handle those types of conversations and how I could best explain to my child how to respond to Annie as her friend.
Lots of love! 🙂
Andrea says:
As I’ve navigated the waters of what to share about my own loss, I’ve found a statement that works for me that doesn’t bring up emotions for me, “My son is a twin, his brother passed at birth.” This has caused different reactions, but it has opened the door for others to share their own loss. Sometimes it will put people off, others will open their hearts even more to your child/family.
If your daughter came over for a play date, and this topic came up and you shared that you had three children, but one was in heaven, I would say I can understand and just go forward.
Your a wonderful mom to even think about this topic, and what will be best for all of your children.
Your heart will guide you as you navigate this new world of play-dates and small talk.
Matt says:
I worry about being on both sides of it. I can say 1 or 2 fairly interchangeably but I am kind of afraid of randomly finding someone with an overlapping story. How would I handle hearing their story? I have inwardly judged others reaction to me and I don’t really know what I would want someone to do.
LindaStewart says:
I would be honored for my babies to be friends with you children … all three of them. I am actually a grandmother raising three of my four grandchildren. I have three beautiful, loving, funny, sensitive, witty, perfect little boys here on earth that I love so deeply sometimes it hurts. I have a blessing waiting for me in Heaven, whenever God sees fit to call me home to be with him/her. My second grandchild was lost to miscarriage at 13 weeks. We never got the opportunity to find out if that baby was a girl or a boy so I call him/her my blessing.
I believe it’s imperative that Annie’s friends, and Little James’s friends and their friends family know about Maddie. Someday Maddie will come up in conversation and it’s better they know when/if Annie or James mention them who they are speaking of.
Christina says:
If I met you and you told me… I’d have my own set of emotions, just at hearing a story of loss (however brief). I’d be a little careful around you at first until I got a better grip on your personality. (Has this made you religious and do you like to talk about that? Are you sensitive about complaining/jokes about frustrating days with my kid because at least I have my kid? Would you rather not talk about it/be asked questions or will you find it weird/offensive if I don’t ask questions like I’m trying to ignore this happened to you?) Once I get a grip on some of these questions, then it would be easy. Maybe would take a month or so.
If I found out later and you never told me… I wouldn’t mind at all. It’s so personal and I’m so private I would completely understand. But that’s just me.
I would absolutely still treat the child friendship the same (invites to parties, coming to your house) because just you engaging in those activities shows that we have that habit/desire in common and that’s enough for me.
Jen says:
As a mom I would be fine with either way. It is obviously a very personal thing and I would respect your feelings, whether that was to say something early on or wait until later. I would probably tell you how sorry I was for your loss and ask you a little bit about Maddie without invading your privacy.
Rebecca says:
My daughter who is now in the 3rd grade was friends with a girl in the 1st grade. She has a little boy about my son’s age so we all got together one day after school. The mom didn’t tell me anything about the big brother.
I saw photos of a child older than the kids who were at the house and wondered who that other child was but didn’t ask because I was afraid. Afraid of what? I dunno.
Anyway, one day I figured out on my own that she had lost a child….So I asked about the child and told the mom if she was uncomfortable telling me his story I completely understand but if she ever wanted to tell me I would love to hear about him. I told her that I am a crier and that I’m completely okay with crying…..
She still hasn’t told me his story and that is okay. I’m here for her if she ever wants to tell me and she knows that.
Rebecca says:
Oh gawd…I should proofread. That first part is really confusing. I have 2 kids. The mom has 3 kids (one in heaven). My two and her two are the same age.
Jenny says:
I haven’t had a chance to read all the comments, so I apologize if I say something duplicate. I come from the perspective of being a good friend to someone who ‘s twin daughters passed from SMA at 5 months. I know she has struggled with some of the same issues you mentioned. My first response to you when hearing about Maddie would be how sorry I am. I would have no problem with your child being friends with mine. It would not have any bearing on if our children could be friends.
However, I would appreciate knowing before Annie (or James) would say something to my child so that I could address any questions they would have first. Also, I would like to know how you want me to respond if one of them brings it up to me. I hope this is helpful
Kim says:
I felt compelled to answer because our kids are about the same age (S is 3 1/2, R is 7mo).
I’ve never been in a situation where a potential friend has had a child that has died – at least none that I know of. I feel like I am a compasionate person and can’t imagine information like that would/could affect the potential friendship between our children, or between us – the parents.
I’m not a nosy nellie, so if you are not comfortable sharing private information (and let me be clear, you have made Maddie’s death public information, but despite that, it is still a private matter for you and your family because as much as you have written/continue to write about it we, the readers will never know how it truly affected you and your family) than I’m OK with that too.
The bottom line is, I would welcome Annie and James to any party my children where having and I would welcome you as a friend whether or not you decide to share your families deepest darkest struggles with me.
Aubrey says:
I can’t imagine it would affect how I felt about a mother of one of my daughter’s friends if told me she had a daughter who had passed away. Or if she didn’t tell me and I found out later. Of course I would feel extreme sympathy, but otherwise I can’t see how it would affect my relationship with that mother. I’d say say whatever feels best to you. I would say any normal individual would not judge you however you chose to bring it up (or if you just did not bring it up).
KateB says:
I would probably get flushed, teary eyed, and express my sympathy, all the while telling myself to pull it together because this is not about me. I am an emotional person, though, and that’s how I would react.
If anything, finding out about Maddie would make me MORE inclined to invite you and the kids over and to parties and I would probably take on a big sisterly role (which I can assume might be found very annoying). I can’t imagine anyone dropping you or Annie, but I am sure that the world is full of assholes.
Here’s hoping you don’t run in to too many of them. Whoever you choose as a friend is a lucky person and never forget that!
Kim says:
It is hard to give advice because handling how you share Maddie’s death can go a million ways depending on who, what, when, where, how and why.
You mentioned that you hadn’t been involved much at Annie’s school but maybe if you could carve out that time to be involved the conversations will happen more authentically and seem less strained. We have a mom at my daughter’s school who had the same situation as you and it is hard to reach out to her because she is never there. She seems nice enough but I rarely see her.
Maybe you could preemptively share your story by asking the preschool if you can do a little fundraiser for the March of Dimes or your foundation. It might make you feel like you have more power over sharing your story. We did a few fundraisers when I worked in child care and maybe they didn’t make a ton of money, the kids enjoyed them.
christine says:
If we were to meet and you told me about Maddie I would uncomfortable, but it would be because I would worry that I might say the wrong thing or make you uncomfortable. But that would not make me turn away from you. As we became better friends I would look for ways to open the door so we could both discuss things going on in our lives. Friendships take awhile to form – especially when they are based around our children. It is a whole different ballgame then meeting/making friends at work.
Amy C. says:
Ah, this topic I know well because of my son and also because of my other son who has some delays. I have always been open and honest with people when they asked and have no hesitation at all discussing things when asked. Why? Because I owe it to myself to do that. People always look to the parent to gauge their reaction. Yes, people are uncomfortable for that brief moment but will they judge you for it? No. I would think most folks would admire your strength and maybe want to know more. People will come and go in your life but the true friends who care will be there. If people are going to judge you or feel uncomfortable over something like the death of your child and refuse a friendship with you or Annie then they are not worth your time. That’s the why I always look at it. Life is not sunshine and rainbows all the time. Heck, I have dermatillomania (compulsive skin picking) and I used to lie about that but now I tell the truth because I owe it to me. Usually people get caught up on that word and stop asking any more questions but the best ones are when people have more questions, then say that they have a relative that may have that too. I know that is a little off topic but it is all relatable. It happens when I talk about my son’s death too. No one lives a perfect life. It is through pain and heartbreak unfortunately that we learn some of life’s most valuable lessons. Empathy, strength, wisdom, and helping someone else with their struggles. It has worked for me so far :).
Amy says:
I have been in this exact situation. I brought my daughter to a play date. While at the family’s home, I noticed a photo of a baby and asked which of her children was pictured.(she has 4 living kiddos) She told me that she had a daughter that died and then told me a little about the situation surrounding her death. I told her how sorry I was to hear that and that I couldn’t imagine how hard it must be. That conversation lasted less than 5 minutes and then one of the kids interrupted and needed something. The subject was changed and the playdate continued without awkwardness. We never became best friends, but the reasons had nothing to do with the fact that she lost a child.
Gillian says:
I don’t see this impacting Annie’s friendships much at all. As a mom of a slightly older kid, I find he makes friends with who he makes friends with, and I make it work with the parents. If I like them, then we may invite each other to family BBQs or whatever – if not, then we just drop off for playdates, do kid birthday parties, and that’s it.
FWIW, because you asked, my recommendation generally would be to tell the parents if you can. Annie will tell them otherwise, and then they won’t know if she’s just being imaginative (ie making it up), or it’s real, and how much of it is real. I like to know that kind of information when I’m hosting someone else’s kid, so I can be sensitive to it and attempt to say the right things to the kid as well as the parents. Of course, if Annie says something, a quick google search might lead them here, with all questions answered.
Americans are not good with grief. Unfortunately, that often means that the burden is placed on the grieving to help people navigate the minefield of talking about it. Kids are more awesome at this – they haven’t yet learned to be afraid of talking about it, and so Annie shoudl be fine. Annie’s relationships aside, the parents of her friends can present great opportunities for you to cultivate your own friendships. A very forthright, simple, and short explanation, complete with “instructions” on what is allowed vis-a-vis discussions about Maddie, may help open the door to new friendships for you with these folks, if that’s what you want. I.e. – “Annabel may bring this up, so I wanted to mention that she is my oldest living child, but my second daughter. She had an older sister she never met who we lost to complications from prematurity at the age of 17 months. Madeline is her name, and we miss her and talk about her with Annie and amongst ourselves, so Annie will probably freely discuss her as well. I wanted to give you a heads up so you know what she’s talking about if Maddie comes up. I don’t mind people talking about her either, so if your child asks me about Maddie someday, don’t feel like you have to shut her down – ” or whatever. In fact, you could frame your ‘instructions’ as instructions for the child/playmate, but they turn into instructions for the adult as well.
Then, based on how they handle it, you’ll learn if they are friend material or not. If not – then Annie goes to unsupervised playdates and birthday parties, and you avoid them otherwise.
Lisa says:
As a mom, I wouldn’t judge you or your children regardless of if and when you shared that info with me. I’d be touched if you felt comfortable enough to share, and if I found out without you telling me, I would assume the loss was too painful for you to discuss (or you didn’t feel like crying at a playdate) and completely respect that. We’re talking about the loss of your child here – I wouldn’t be thinking about my own feelings at all! I’d just want to express my condolences, talk more about it if you wanted to, and just keep treating you like the normal person you are.
I had a few friends as a child who had experienced loss (a parent or sibling). If anything, I felt more drawn to them because I wanted to be kind. However, as a kid, I rarely mentioned their losses because I had the simplistic view that if I brought it up, I’d be reminding them of it and making them feel sad. As an adult, I now know that those who have lost someone are thinking of them often anyway and my mentioning their loved one is more likely to be positive than negative. My only fear would be that I’d make the person cry in a situation where they’d prefer not to.
I recently reached out to a close friend from high school (we’re 32 now) and as our conversation went on, I said I’d love to hear more about her mom sometime. Her mom died the year before we met as kids and I was always scared to mention it because it was the saddest thing I could think of and I didn’t want to remind her of that loss. As an adult, I regretted not asking her about it then and we had a wonderful talk about what her mom was like and she told me she was so thankful I brought it up.
Jenn says:
I would have no issues at all with my children being friends with yours. I would simply tell you that I was sorry for your loss and then allow our kids to move on with their friendship. I would ask you and your child to tell my child about the child that has died so that we may better know about whom you are referring to. I would never be uncomfortable if you or your child talked about your child. I know, as I am sure many others do, that she was a person and will always be a huge part of your family. Anyone who can not see that is really not worthy of your friendship. 🙁
sandi says:
My younger brother died of a sudden illness when he was 18 months. I was 5 at the time so I remember it. My mom talked about it openly. I don’t remember her telling people when she first met them, but she certainly didn’t hide it, so they would come to know of it if we had much contact with them.Talking about him was how she coped and I think it was good for the rest of us kids that it wasn’t some dark secret. I certainly can understand why some don’t talk about the death of a child, but in our situation I’m very glad my mom did. I don’t remember ever losing a friend because of it. If other parents felt awkward because of it I was never aware of it. I might have talked about it to my friends, I really don’t remember.I think I was pretty focused on myself and things that interested me when I was very young. I think most kids are. You are such a loving mother, I think however you handle it will be right for your kids. Your blog has helped me to understand what my mom must have gone through a little better.
Kerry says:
We are in a similar situation. I have a 5 year old and she has 3 siblings (they’re my step-kids). The middle one died by suicide 2.5 years ago. We are a military family, so we get the question “How many kids do you have?” all the time. And it always trips me up. I’m not very social at my daughter’s school either, but we talk about her brother all the time. I make sure that her teacher knows, so that when my little one brings him up, they are aware. As far as who you tell, I think that has to be your preference, as it is ours. Obviously when we move into a new neighborhood, we share with our neighbors. But as far as the parent’s of my daughters friends, I haven’t told any of them. The fact of the matter is, losing a child is hard. Unless it’s happened to you, you can never understand it. We also have the added issue of suicide, which truly no one wants to talk about. Whatever you decide to tell or not tell is your prerogative. Some days you may want to talk about Maddie, and other days you may want to keep her close. With some people you may feel that you can share, and with others you may feel like you don’t want to. Either is fine. I keep trying to tell myself that whatever answer I give is ok, and whomever I feel like sharing or not sharing with is ok. I know this answer is not making any sense at all, but I wanted you to know that you’re not alone in this situation, and I can assure you that whatever you do, it’s the best thing for you. Trust in that. Sending big hugs.
Laurie SL says:
First, I think you are an awesome mom. I read your blog everyday on the way to work and I love your writings. I’m so sorry that your friends didn’t stick by you when Maddie passed (or were scared/didn’t know how to relate to you). I was thinking of your question, and I would not be hurt if I found out later that you had a child that passed. Most moms can only image how difficult that is and should understand why you didn’t not tell them sooner. I would just say to you, share that with people when YOU feel ready to. Don’t be afraid to scare people off – even if hearing about Maddie does scare them off, then they weren’t good friend material anyway and Annie is so awesome she will have tons of friends to choose from anyway.
Vicky says:
I think you put to much pressure on yourself. I am that friend. My children, ages 3 and 7 have friends the same exact age. The 7 year old was a twin who didn’t make it. The childrens grandmother told me at one of the kids birthday parties. I was not offended at all the the mom did not tell me, it did change the way I looked at her, but it made me realize just how strong of a women she is. About a year after the grandmother told me the mom told me. I told her I already knew, and I also told her just how strong I think she is.
If people stop being your friend because you choose to speak or not to speak about something, regardless of what that something is then they are not worthy of being your friend.
Terri says:
I have a good friend who lost a child around Maddie’s age. I wasn’t friends with her at the time, and she’s never mentioned it to me. I know when someone asks her how many kids she has, she doesn’t give a number. She will say Sammy has a brother who is “x” age, she never mentions the sister who passed but she also doesn’t say I have 2 kids, or 3 kids. Someday it may come up that she has another daughter too. I’m assuming it will at some point, but if it doesn’t I’m okay with that too. I’m not offended either way and it’s perfectly okay to NOT go there if she doesn’t want to. That ball is in her court and I’ve certainly never asked her about it but I’m sure she knows I’m here for her for whatever the topic so if she felt like talking I’m sure she would.So please don’t think people will think oddly of you if you don’t tell them. You can just say this is Annie’s brother James. Or her little brother is “x” age… it doesn’t mean she doesn’t have an older sister too. I would have no issues at all if you didn’t tell me but I found out through the grapevine later and it sure wouldn’t effect playdates and that sort of thing.
Sjl22783 says:
My two cents is simple, if I were in the “friend” roll it wouldn’t matter to me anyway. It is your life and if/when you tell me is your choice. I would be so very sorry to hear this news as that loss is unthinkable and I would say that I. Sorry for your loss then ask if there is anything that I can do to help. After that I would resume friendship as friendship should be resumed be there for you when friends need to be there for others, have play dates, and mommy coffee dates!
Molly says:
Last night someone I thought I was close to for years told me she doesn’t want to hear about the hard times I’m going through, though I’ve been asking for her empathy and support for months. She said, coldly, she just can’t. It hurts me. I’d like to hear about the existing friendships of yours that didn’t last through Maddie’s death, if you feel comfortable writing about it in the future. As for the present, of course if you told me that you had lost a daughter, even if it was just casually at preschool pickup, I would stop, perhaps touch your arm, and say, “I am so so sorry.” Tears would probably well up a bit behind my eyes. They kind of are right now. Then I’d say, “Thank you for telling me about your family. I’m really glad to know more about you.” And then I’d leave it up to you as to where you wanted to go from there. To be honest, I’d probably be biased towards liking you a lot. Not because of your horrific loss, but because, by sharing that with me, you were showing me that you’re a brave person who’s not afraid to talk about sad things, and who’s not ashamed. I’d feel like if my daughter was sad, she’d probably be safe at your house, and be safe around Annie. She’d probably get comforted, and not treated like a pariah. But my guess is that as you start talking about this more freely, you’ll get a lot of bad reactions. Keep note of them. Share them. They’re not your fault. They’re a result of how sadly rare empathy is. But one consolation: you and Annie and James and Mike have a quick test of true friendship: those people without empathy will disappear from your life at the very beginning. The ones who stick around will be the good ones. You won’t have to wait years, like I did, to find out they weren’t worth your time.
MG says:
Fwiw, this area is tricky even when not dealing with such a terrible loss. I often feel badly because the kids seem to hit it off by the parents don’t seem receptive to me and then the kids never get together. For your situation, it wouldn’t bother me if I knew right away it down the line. I wouldn’t be offended if you didn’t want to share right away. I’m open with my kids about death and many life issues so I would likely follow your lead or ask you how you would prefer me to handle it with my kids. I’m one that tries to remember to mention lost lived ones to friends but then I wonder if that’s what they would like me to do. I mean, when it makes sense to do so or let them know I’m thinking of them and their loved one. I had a friend whose daughter lost a baby at around a month or so (when she was born they knew she wouldn’t live long). That was 8 years ago, I still try to remember the bday and “-anniversary” dates. Best wishes to you.
ldoo says:
My main thought is that while some adults are uncomfortable about death, their kids aren’t. If Annie makes friends with a parent who would keep her daughter/son from hanging out with her because she’s so uncomfortable, then that kid likely won’t be raised in the way that will end up being conducive to Annie staying friends with him/her. Just my two cents!
MNMom says:
I am not surprised by anything I hear these days. If a parent told me that their child had died, I would be compassionate and empathetic and take any further cues from them. It would have absolutely no impact on whether their child would be a friend of mine – that would be up to the kids! I think everyone carries a burden that is uncomfortable to talk about with strangers. I have an adult son with autism and I remember how hard it was at graduation time when people would ask me what college he was going to. He is very high functioning, but college was not an option. Now, I make sure I always say to parents of graduates, “What are the plans for next year?” I used to dance around the issue but not anymore. If it makes anyone uncomfortable, that’s their problem not mine. I doubt anyone would withhold friendship from Annie because of that and frankly, if they feel awkward because you lost a child, then they have some serious maturing to do. I lost four siblings to cystic fibrosis and we have always talked about them – anyone who knows our family knows our loss. I have never given it a second thought to how other people feel when I talk about my siblings. I remember a few years ago at my niece’s wedding, a stranger making polite conversation asked my mother how many children she had. She answered six and my dad corrected her and said ten. She wasn’t forgetting, she was just used to referring to the ones she raised to adulthood. No matter what you choose to say to people, it will never mean that you are forgetting or ignoring Maddie. If it is a parent of a potential friend of Annie’s, just say you have two at home and one that died. Most mature adults will go with the flow and in fact, go out of their way to make it easier for you.
BeeBelle says:
I don’t think the situation is all that rare, unfortunately. My kids have had friends with deceased siblings and parents, and very sadly, one of my oldest daughter’s best friends died unexpectedly of a brain tumor over a weekend when she was four. I can tell you that anyone who would be upset with you for telling or for not telling has a problem that is all theirs and not yours. I think since you have been an – is activist a safe word to use? – for the March of Dimes and a fairly public figure from blogging, it’s best to lean towards open-ness. Come up with a comfortable phrase that you can use and your kids can imitate as needed. Some people I know say “I have two kids at home and one in heaven.” If that’s comfortable with your beliefs, it seems like people understand it easily. It may cause a hiccup in conversation, but for most people I’ve talked with it’s not a full stop.
Jean says:
You are so smart to prepare for these sure-to-happen scenes. I love your “two kids at home” response and I think anyone paying attention will catch that there is a back story. So many parent interactions are quite casual and that should fill the bill for most. And, I think “instant intimacy” is more problematic than sharing a bit later. I think, as friendships develop, you’ll discover the best time for each reveal. Annie, too, will learn to share when it feels right. If other people find this a problem, I’d be very surprised. The world is a much more complicated place these days and very few families escape all dramas, although few as overwhelming as the loss of a child. This is such an exciting time for Annie and you both will quickly learn to navigate this new stretch.
Bobbi says:
I would NEVER expect someone to come out with that kind of information right away. I would be okay if you WANTED to be honest up front, but I would never ever hold it against someone for not mentioning the death of a child in a casual setting.
If I’m being completely honest, knowing that you had a child pass away might change the way have my kids interact with yours, I think. I just know that right now, I really try to stress to my daughter (5, in Kindergarten) how important it is to be nice to her friends who are sad or upset, or even the kids who aren’t her friends now but who I can see are struggling in some way or just maybe need some extra loving (and also that if she is kind, hopefully people return the favor. She’s a friend lover too. And I want her to know we make friends by being a good friend). If your daughter told me daughter that her sister died, I would explain to my daughter that that must be a really hard thing for her to think about and how nice would it be for you to always make sure you’re kind to her. I guess in this way I disagree with your title, death can make friends – real friends – people who are looking to connect on a real human level.
I can’t imagine that people would NOT invite your kids over because their big sister is in heaven, or because you didn’t tell them right away.
Jackie says:
please share/donate/retweet I lost my mom and need help raising funds to bury her http://www.gofundme.com/719dzw
I don’t want to bother on your blog but I have been reading your blogs for as long as Annie was in your belly. I just want to reach as many people as I can. I’m sorry if it bothers anyone. I just want to lay my mom to rest. She’s been gone for 5 days and we won’t be able to bury her until we have all the money. So please if any of you can help us please donate. Anything will help.
Kelly Daniel says:
After a long NICU stay, I don’t think your story would scare of off in the slightest. Being in the room when families lost children and then spending months with the family and children that were still in the NICU changed me. That being said, just our NICU stay scared some people off. 🙁
twingles says:
I think your instinct to not say anything off the bat is correct. But I wouldn’t think it would be weird if I found out later – I think I’d understand that it wasn’t something that had to be shared when we didn’t know each other.
Jess says:
I don’t have kids right now, but if this was a situation I was in and you came to my house and told me this, I would be very sad for you. It wouldn’t stop me from letting my kids play with yours. I wouldn’t feel any different about you. I wouldn’t feel any different about your children. Each family has things that happen. Sad things, etc. Annie will find her best friend. And you will find some awesome people. It’ll be ok.
Gina says:
Take your cues from Annie. If they asked her, what would she say? You wouldn’t want her to sound afraid or even ashamed to have a sister, so why should you be? How awkward is it if she tells her friend she has a sister and you said she didn’t? Any “friend” who only defines you by a lost child isn’t worth worrying over. I think most (decent) people would process the information as an interesting fact about your life, like if you said you lived in France for a year. I know that sounds weird, but think about it: That would be a unique and interesting part of your life that shaped who you are today, but doesn’t define you completely as a person. Some people will ask more about it, others won’t be interested, but that is more about them than you.
Caroline says:
I have found that most interaction with other kids my daughter goes to preschool with to be pretty casual. I’m guessing when you drop her off and pick her up you have James with you? I think then people would know you have another child bc they seem him and maybe wouldn’t ask if Annie has any other siblings. At least not right at the beginning. I would just keep it basic. Oh yes, she has a little brother at home.. Then if you develop a more close friendship with a couple of moms you can let Maddie come up however she does. Whatever you do it won’t be wrong. I can honestly say if I knew nothing about you and we met at a preschool bday party and Maddie came up, your loss wouldn’t scare me away at all. Even if you laid it all out there when we first met it’d be fine!! I’d tell you I was so sorry, see if you elaborated or acted like you wanted to talk more about it and then start talking to you about Annie and the preschool etc. You can’t go wrong here. I realize you’ve lost friends in the past over this, but this whole preschool/gym class/bday party environment has always seemed very relaxed, share as little or as much as you want, to me. On a side note, I kinda swear a lot, and if I could I would say its a bunch of “bleepity, bleep bleep, bleepity hooey” that this is something you even have to think about. I’m so sorry. If you wanna hang in Indy at a preschool party I’m all for it! Mainly bc I think you seem to be pretty darn cool!!
Michelle says:
This is something I think about constantly. I am in constant fear that the cashier is going to ask how many kids I have. Lyvi is only 2 1/2 now so we don’t do many play dates with new people. Especially since our loss is so fresh, Violet died a little over 3 weeks ago. I worry that in school kids will find out and she’ll be “that” girl who’s sister died. I hope that by always talking about Vi that Lyvi will be comfortable enough with the situation that she won’t have any trouble talking about her if she wants to. I know this doesn’t help or answer your question, but thank you for bringing it up. I read all the comments and I hope someday I will know what to do in these sorts of situations.
Steph says:
Michelle, I’m so sorry for your loss.
Jenn says:
Hi Sweet One,
I’m sorry you’re going through this but I understand! When my 10 month old God-daughter passed away the questions I got were insane and some were so insensitive it was surreal!! I actually had one friend I called to tell the news call me back and say “How could you do this to me” – as in upsetting her by me calling her to tell the baby had suddenly passed away. I can just imagine some of the comments you get. When someone tells me news such as that I ALWAYS say how very sorry I am and then I just follow their lead. Everyone is different….some people are more open than others. I think you should follow your heart. If the family is kind and you feel comfortable maybe you’ll want to share but at the same time, if you’re not ready sweetheart, then you are NOT really and that’s OKAY! If they get upset at you for that and judge Annie for that….well, do you really want people like that in your daughters life? Follow your instincts whatever they are and trust yourself. If Annie feel comfortable enough to share and someone then confronts you on it, again it’s up to how you feel at that time. I personally would never think to judge you for not telling me something so profoundly personal until you were ready too. Sending you hugs and love!! Take Care! xo
Auntie_M says:
Oh sweet darling girl,
I am a little different in that I don’t have kids, but I do have nieces & nephews with whom I am very connected. Damon straight we’d all still be your friends regardless of how we learned about Maddie. I can guarantee that my (just-turned) 5 y.o. niece’s eyes would fill with tears and she would want to see pictures and hear stories of Maddie, both thru Annie’s eyes and yours. She is an empath and would pick up on the emotions involved both shown & hidden.
But then, she did attend her stillborn cousin’s memorial when she was but 9 months old and death is not shied away from in our family. Instead both the living and dead children are honored in our rose garden where each child has his or her own rose bush, including cousin Demetri, and there is a special rose bush honoring children gone too soon and their families(our Angel babies bush, as it was christened), and another honoring grandparents no longer with us.
So, I guess we are the wrong family to ask, as we, too, are different. We aren’t morbid: we just know reality and have too many family members (of multiple generations) & friends who have suffered child loss.
Does that mean we’d say and do everything right? No…we are still human and as each person grieves in their own way at each particular stage, we are bound to blow it without meaning to. (I did with my own brother & SIL–sucks beyond belief to know you inadvertently deepened someone’s pain. Especially someone whom you love so very much!) But all we can do is own our mistakes, ask forgiveness, and continue to love and support the parents & siblings on this life-long journey.
As for YOU, in particular, trust the instincts and love that have carried you all this far.
I hope Annie and James never suffer hurt for loving their sister, but if they do, they will learn that the other person was the sadly ignorant one. The question is whether that hurtful person is worth & willing to receive teaching the valuable lessons & blessings in life that Maddie, Annie, and James have to offer them. Hurtful exchanges can turn into valued friendships. But at the same time, it will be up to each of you to discern when pursuing a relationship with someone is not going anywhere but rather is nothing but casting your precious pearls before swine.
With love & hope~Mary
MNMom says:
Just wanted to add, my 25 year old autistic son (Aspergers), is absolutely brilliant with dealing with death. He always says and does the right thing because he doesn’t feel uncomfortable giving people what they need, which is usually to talk about the person that died. One time, a family acquaintance had a daughter die in a tragic, stupid car accident. The mother was absolutely inconsolable and really struggled for a few years. One Christmas, out of the blue, my son decided to write her a card and tell her how very badly he felt that she felt badly. He wanted her to know that there were still a lot of people who cared about her and he wanted her to feel better. I ran into her several months later and she told me she kept that card on her dresser and read it every day. He is an amazingly insightful soul when he comes to death and I think it is because he feels no emotional barriers, he just gives. I think so many people feel awkward about the issue that they do a dance around it, making both parties feel awkward and uncomfortable. Hopefully, the people you choose to tell, will listen and just let you talk and hopefully, ask questions about how Maddie lived. 🙂
Mary says:
You have done so much to raise awareness about grief and death in childhood. I think the way that you treat the situation will be a cue for Annabel and how she treats it. Is she comfortable sharing this information with others? Does she not share it until she knows someone for some time? I don’t think there is a perfect answer at all. However, I do agree with others that those who do avoid you after hearing about your sweet girl aren’t really people that are going to be great friends anyway. I’ve been so shocked with losses in my own life and how others treat it. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and not judge (i.e., they just don’t know how to deal with it) versus wow they are really superficial and don’t care. However, that said, it’s really difficult. I have a friend that lost her newborn and I’ve been shocked by how many people act like it just never happened or who stopped inviting her out to do things. People who were ‘friends’ that just moved on. Breaks my heart. When you need people the most, and they just disappear. However, I think that what you are doing has really helped raise awareness and has helped to take the issue from the ‘secret’ to something that is sadly part of life and helped others to think about their own actions differently. I’ve had a couple miscarriages in the last few months and I can’t tell you how much reading your blog about grief has helped me. The first one I told very few people about and the second one I decided to be more open about (I went back and re-read your posts about your m/c and I really thought about the part where you said you decided to tell others you were pregnant early b/c you would need the support if something went wrong). The support that I received the second time around was a huge help in us deciding to try again. It also brought many people out to tell me that they had miscarriages but never talked about it-people who lost pregnancies 20+ years. It has been really healing for both me and I think, others. So, the long and short of it: I think you absolutely get to decide but I do think part of healing for all of us is connecting with one another about really difficult things.*HUGS*
Lorrie says:
Heather, I do not know you but have read your blog for years. I have not read all the comments on this post. I have a different situation than you in the fact that my husband died when my children were young. I am remarried to a man who had also lost his wife. Between us we have 5 kids. We had to decide how to haddle peoples questions. Our children went/go to the same school and we attended the same church. So for most people, they know the story and watched our love story evolve. However, as the kids got older and went to high school and made friends from other feeder schools, was when the questions started. We both state that we have 5 kids. We are their parents. We have people who met us after we were married and have no idea that the 5 aren’t “ours”. if they ask, we tell them, if they don’t, we don’t. It has been easier that way. I think you decide for each situation how, if and when you tell. And we also had to both realize that we were not betraying or forgetting about our deceased spouses, but just doing what worked for us. Good luck and you are a wonderful mom!!! Whatever you do, it RIGHT for you!!!!
Christina says:
I am sure there is a percentage of the parents whom do know, it may be a small group, but I am sure some do know, and there may be a parent in her class whom has walked those shoes also, no one knows.
you share what you feel comfortable in sharing, there are groups of people with whom you would feel more at ease sharing Maddies story with earlier than others. and if Annie shares her sister with one of her friends and you are asked, again, how you feel at that moment on that day..”Maddie is Annie’s older sister whom passed away.” nuff said, no need to dish more.
My sister is going through this somewhat, my Nephew, Evan, was born a twin, His brother, Christian, gave his life so Evan could stay, No secret has ever been made about Christian, but Evan hasnt really ever mentioned him, till this year, he started pre-k, and now has his ‘brother’ also going to school with him and talks to him as if he is present, My sister had to share with the teacher when she thought he had a very strong attachment to his ‘friend’ so while the teacher doesnt include Christian in everything, if they have carpet time, while my nephew sits at the carpet with his peers, she will invite ‘Christian’ to sit at a table to read another book, etc, She too is at a loss at how to bring up not bring up Christian,
Amy says:
You asked a question, but I actually have one for you. I am a very inquiring person. Some say nosy but when it comes to the illness or death of a child I have an insatiable yearning to know how that child was diagnosed or how they died. I think it’s something I file away in my head for future reference. Like, if a child died of meningitis and their parent said it started with a headache. I remember that the next time my kids get a headache. It’s crazy but I can’t stop myself.
So, my question is this, do you mind the questions surrounding Maddie and her death? If I met you and you told me about her my initial response would be “Aw, I’m so sorry, that must be so hard.” And then it would happen. “How did she die?” I don’t mean it rude or to offend, it’s just how my kind works. Would that bother you? I’m pretty sure I’ve said the previous things verbatim a time or two.
Tricia says:
Love you guys tons and while I’m sure it would catch people off guard, I cannot see how any decent person would not want to be friends with Annie or you guys after learning about sweet Maddie. I think that however and whenever you choose to tell them is totally up to you. Hugs. xo
Amy says:
How my MIND works not my kind. Although that fits too I guess. 😉
Liz says:
If you were the one to tell me, I would likely say something like “I’m so sorry to hear that, how terrible etc. etc.” All painfully familiar I’m sure. I’m not likely to ask for anything more in terms of information if I didn’t know you well. If it came up another way, I wouldn’t likely ask you directly, assuming that you would tell me if you wanted to but I would not feel it was strange if you didn’t tell me yourself. I KNOW it wouldn’t keep me from wanting your kid to play with my kids.
My only word of caution is when you’re ready to do drop-off parties and play dates. If Annie was over at my house on a play date and brought Maddie up and you weren’t around to take a cue from, I would want suggestions from you on how you speak about Maddie with her – the kind of language Annie is used to hearing for example.
And another reason is that I have a terrible poker face and wouldn’t want to seem really shocked or taken aback in front of her – if she’s anything like my older kid, who is both quite sensitive and good at reading adults’ reactions, she might be bothered by that, especially as she’s getting used to being at a friend’s house without you around.
I can’t imagine how hard a conversation this is to have so I’m not making this suggestion lightly, but if you’re leaving Annie with casual acquaintances who don’t know about Maddie, if it were me, I’d want to be somewhat prepared. Even if it was something simple like “My eldest daughter is named Maddie and she died at about 18 months of age before Annie was born. Annie talks about her sometimes. I just wanted to make you aware.” For me, in addition to the “I’m so sorry…” line, it would also allow me to say “Thank you for letting me know.” And it would give me a chance to think about how I would talk about it with my own kids if and when it was needed.
Again – I know it takes a huge toll to have that conversation but it would reassure me that I would be able to respond appropriately to Annie if it came up.
nnat says:
I think there’s huge difference between losing friends back then and now. I honestly cannot imagine that you would lose potential play dates / friendships if any of the other parents found out about Madeline. Before, you may no longer have had much in common with your former friends. Now, you have kids the same age, in the same school, no less. That’s like, a universal unifier. This will be a non-issue. By the way, do you really think none of the other parents know about this blog?
Dre says:
I think you should go with your gut in each situation. Maddie’s life and death is so personal, but also a major part of YOUR life, and Annie and James’ too!
For me, I wouldn’t expect to know right away. If we became closer or started spending more time together with more than just superficial conversations, I would feel touched that you shared with me and, maybe because I know you already but I think even if I didn’t, it wouldn’t deter me from being friends with you. There’ a mom at the girls’ school who has daughters in each of my girls’ classes, who has 1 more toddler at home and 1 other daughter who passed away. I know only because her daughters have mentioned their “lost sister” to me – in the most natural, kind, accepting way. I see the mom often, we chat regularly, and she’s never mentioned the daughter who died. That’s perfectly ok with me, and doesn’t discourage me from pursuing a friendship with her.
On another note, and I know it’s not the same, but since the girls and I moved and “started over” no one knew about my past, about my ex being a meth addict and Blythe having major illnesses as a result. People could just look at us and think we’re “perfect”, and honestly I was afraid if people knew, they’d look at me differently and would be less likely to want to be friends and even WORSE, I was afraid they wouldn’t want their kids to play with mine. So I go with my gut. There are a few parents and 1 teacher who know, and the telling came naturally. They were so supportive, and by the time I felt comfortable in talking about it, we already had a bond. Except for 1 woman who kind of blew me off every time I saw her after that, but that’s ok. The girls are thriving in their environment and I – well, making friends after a certain age, and being new in a small town – have some lovely acquaintances who are on their way to being my friends, to go along with the ones I’ve made away from school.
Emily says:
I’m too like the others who lost an older sibling. We lived in a small town but about 4 years after she died we moved to a completely different state where no one knew she ever existed. I can tell you from as earlier as I can remember I had anxiety (and actually still do) when my mom was asked that question. I just knew it could possibly upset her and that was the last thing I wanted. Even though she wouldn’t necessarily breakdown right there I knew it hurt her inside even at 8 years old.
I always felt relief when she said she had two kids, my younger brother and me. Eventually once people got to know us, they learned we had an older sister who passed away and it was never a big deal. I never felt like my parents were acting like she never existed. It actually made me feel more comfortable that a difficult conversation didn’t have to come up during a completely normal one.
You are doing the best you can and nobody can knock that!
Jena Healy says:
Heather, If you and I met and you shared Maddie’s story with me, it would not cause me to not want to hang out with you nor would I keep my children from hanging out with Annie. When my oldest son was about to start 2nd grade, every parent in the class received an email stating that a new student that would be in my son’s class had just lost his sister after she fell off of Chimney Rock. The family had just moved to the area and we seeing the sights. Although I was devastated for the family and the child, I did not avoid. I also did not go out of my way to befriend them because of this tragedy (as some people do). I figured if my son became close friends with that child for the reason of having common interests then we would become friends through parenting friends. Brandon and I did converse about the accident and I ask him to watch out for his fellow classmate in case he came to school some days sad or seemed lonely since he was new to the school. I think being sensitive without being overly attentive allows the grieving individual to steer the conversation in a way that they are comfortable. I was more than happy to listen when the child’s mother and I were on a field trip, and she did express her appreciation for Brandon being so kind to her son and for Brandon treating him like he treated his other friends rather then the new kids or the child whose sister died. In my opinion it is important to acknowledge the loss without gawking awkwardly. Prayers always for you and yours as the waters are always uncharted for you and Annie. James will at least benefit somewhat from Annie blazing this trail and many others for him.
A says:
When the subject of the devastating loss of my brother comes up with someone I’m just meeting, I start with a sort of joke… Bear with me. Humor is my way of coping. Let’s say I’m meeting with someone and the subject of siblings come up.
New Friend: So, as your parents get older, do you have any brothers or sisters to help out?
Me: So, actually, this is the moment when I pull open my shirt like Superman and reveal my giant B for “Bereaved.” (I then smile sadly and mime doing what you see Superman do in this photo: http://comicrelated.com/artwork/AlexRossSuperman.jpg) “I have a sister who lives in San Francisco and an older brother who passed away four years ago.”
The joke lets them know I can talk about it without breaking down. Most people say, “I’m so sorry.”
I’ll say, simply, “Oh, thank you. My scarlet B” (gesture to the invisible B my chest) “also stands for Bernie, which was his name. He was totally my hero” (which dovetails nicely with the Superman theme). “Do you have siblings?”
Then that leaves the person the option of sharing about their family, talking about superheroes, whatever. I think when people respond badly, (“Oh, I lost my dog, she was like my child”) they are far more likely to be berating themselves than judging you (Did I really just compare my dog to a child just now? I’m an ass!)
I will say this, though. This little schtick of mine? It’s taken a lot of practice. I’m four years into this, and I didn’t lose a child. Your mileage may vary.
Still, it enables to me to honor and name my brother, put someone else at ease with a little humor and let them know it’s okay for them to tell me about their loss as well, if they too are one of us walking around with our invisible scarlet Bs on our hearts.
Glenda says:
If people don’t know how to handle the fact that you lost Maddie that becomes their issue for whatever their issues may be. I lost my dad when I was 13 and the week I didn’t go to school after he passed I let the teacher know but I didn’t want anyone to know. Guess I didn’t know how to handle it and didn’t want to talk about it. Guess it was my way of handling grief. As I grew up it was easier to talk about my dad. You do and say what you think is okay and what’s makes you comfortable.
Jean Andreacci says:
I would give you both a hug and invite you both over as often as I could. I could never feel your loss, but know you need friends.
Allyx says:
I don’t understand that kind of grief (that comes with losing a child) because it has never happened to me, but I know of it, a little. Right before my family moved to our new town, the neighbors lost their oldest son. I wasn’t a part of their grief process, but there it was.
Now, if I was one of your neighbors and discovered that you have lost your child I would probably give you my, “Oh, honey!” look, and a hug, and invite you over for more play-dates. I would offer you my support in anything you need or want, and if you told me to leave you alone, I would do that too. I’m a lover.
RM says:
I lost my husband when my daughter was 3-months old (she’s 12 now with a fantastic “dad” and 2.5 siblings). I know that it’s different but, when dealing with death…people have a hard time. I never told anyone specifically and just let it come up naturally or she would tell people and I would expand upon it once I knew. I did encourage her to say that she had a “daddy in heaven” to allow the discomfort of the death (and the fact that she might be three years old stating “my dad is dead” as a shocking fact). I wasn’t real religious but, it seemed to help other people. Overall, just tell them when the conversation lends itself to it…if they get “upset” that they didn’t know sooner…then, that’s their own issue not yours.
Lesley says:
I would not judge you. Dealing with the loss of a child is unimaginable to me and however you choose to grieve and deal with life is right for you. I have two kids and again, WOULD NOT judge you one way or the other. Maybe you have to feel people out. Maybe you tell some and not others and that is what feels right to you. I wouldn’t be offended either way.
Enna says:
I would want to be your friend, and I would want my child to be friends with your child. I don’t know how you lost your child, but I live in constant fear of losing mine. He is 3, and 10 months ago he was diagnosed with AML Leukemia, and is now 4 months in remission. Every day is a battle for me, I can imagine the battle your are fighting. I would want to know, right away, and I would just sit there quietly, if you needed me to. Because sometimes, I just want someone to be quiet with.
Michelle says:
My daughter Harper was 3 1/2 when our youngest daughter died of SIDS. (she was 4 months old) it impacted my daughter tremendously, because she not only lost a sibling, but also she lost a piece of her identity, SISTER. I am much in the same boat as you. We just started at a new school (kindergarten) and families are getting to know each other…. and typically the first question in getting to know ya, amongst parents is, do you have any other kids? or to Harper “do you have a brother or sister” If i get the question and i am never going to see the person again, i say i have one kid. If it a parent at her school, i say i have harper and we had a younger daughter who passed away. Harper answer I have a sister in heaven. (that is how we explained to harper where her sister went). i have found Kids are much more excepting(especially at this age) of hearing about daughter passing. But i have found that Harper wants to talk about being a sister, so that is why i chose to say that i have two daughters, Not just one. because if i don’t then harper gets confused on how to answer the very seemingly easy question to answer
Danie says:
I don’t know you, but i feel for you. Let me assure you that I wouldn’t treat you or your child any differently than before I knew. And I wouldn’t care whether you told me right away, later, or never — it’s none of my business! I would hope that our kids would be good and kind friends. And I hope that you too can find good friends when you’re ready.
Kara says:
First of all, I’m so sorry that Maddie is no longer with you. I’ve never been in your shoes so I won’t pretend I know what you’re going through. If it were me being told, I would probably get emotional, losing one of my kids is my biggest fear. I would never treat you different or not allow our children to play. Death does make people uncomfortable, but if people shun someone because they’ve lost someone close to them, those aren’t the type of “friends” you want around.
Wendy says:
I would assume that you told me when you were ready, and it wouldn’t be a weird conversation, at all. Depending on where I was, hormonally, mostly, I may cry, hug you, hold your hand or just say, “I’m sorry for your loss”. The information would, in no way, affect how we treated you or your child. I know that not everyone is as comfortable with these types of things, but I’m sure that you’ll find that there are many people who would be ok with your news, no matter when it came.
Meg says:
I won’t say that knowing a friend has lost a child doesn’t change anything – it certainly doesn’t impact my willingness to be their friend or engage with them, but sometimes I feel sad when I think of the loss they’ve suffered. And that’s not a sensation I would feel otherwise. Maybe sometimes I am more gentle with them, or more tentative – just trying not to say something stupid or unsupportive. But your blog has honestly helped me remember that part of being a good friend to someone who has lost a child is to not be afraid to mention the child and honor their life. I feel like if my friend was trusting enough to share their story with me, I would do my best to be someone they could count on.
Karin says:
My kids are now in 4th grade and I have actually encountered several similar situations. I think the thing to think about is how much information you give out and when. One of the families we know has had a variety of family-members, including their child, fighting various forms of cancer. A family member or 2, though not all of them, travels into TMI territory about every time I talk to them, sharing medical details that I don’t feel are appropriate to share in the kind of relationship we have.
Another mom I know just mentioned it in a more casual way and as we got to know each other more we talked more about the details. Our daughters are in sports together. Something like H: You know that she had an older brother that passed away? M: Oh, I’m sorry to hear that. Don’t remember if we talked more then or in another conversation later found out how old and how he passed. I think it was the 2nd short season they had played together and I felt good that she trusted me with that information about her family.
The friends that you will keep will understand whatever you do as far as when or if you tell them about your loss.
Steph says:
I am the Mommy of a 9 year old boy. My heart breaks for you, I am so sorry that you and your family have had such a tragedy in your lives. That said, it would not (negatively) impact my son’s friendship with your children, nor would it effect my desire to be friends with you. It would simply be one more piece of the puzzle that makes you who you are.
Paula says:
So I’m wondering: what would you do if my daughter or son was your child’s new friend? **I would welcome both of them in my child’s life.
How would you react if I told you upon our first or second meeting that my oldest child is dead? **I would tell you how sorry I am for your loss and then we could talk some more. I would not probe because it’s really none of my business but if you felt the urge/desire/need to share then I would be as caring and comforting as I possibly could.
How would you feel if I didn’t tell you, and you found out later by some other means? **I wouldn’t have a reaction either way. It’s not my business until you make it my business. 🙂
Would you still invite my child to your parties? Would you still come over to our house? Yes! YES! YES!
Heather – there is no shame in having a child who died nor should you ever feel the need to tell anyone or feel the fear in not telling. It’s not how WE feel – it is about how YOU feel and that is what is most important. You’ve suffered a tremendous loss and sometimes people feel awkward in responding…it’s like they feel guilty that none of their children died. Not because you are making them feel that way but it’s just a gut reaction. I know I struggled with those feelings when Maddie passed. I followed Maddie’s life from birth to death and I remember coming home and being devastated at her loss. I remember giving you the first ever “preTzel Wednesday” award. You weren’t a new blogger but you were a fledgling. 😉 After she died I felt guilty because I had my children. I didn’t know how to reach out to you. I wanted to come out there but couldn’t afford it. So what did I do? I retreated into a shell. I felt if I mentioned Maddie that I would some how pull a scab off a gaping wound and make it worse for you.
People who have not felt the tremendous loss of a child cannot fathom that pain/anguish/hurt that only those that have know. I can guess at it simply because I cannot imagine my life with out my boys…not one second and I feel so bad because I want to give you your Maddie Moo and I get mad because I cannot. I see the love you have for your Annabel and James and I know you will do the right thing when the time comes. You don’t *have* to tell anyone about Maddie’s passing and if you do then that’s okay too.
Plus (gawd, this is epic now) if you do tell them and they refuse to have your daughter over and vice versa then you don’t need those assholes in your life anyway.
Huge ((((((HUGS))))) to you Heather.
Cyndy says:
I feel like I would squeeze you and hug you and then you’d probably run away from me as fast as you could. lol
I KNOW I would not judge you for when or how you chose to tell me, because I can never imagine how it feels to have a loss like yours and the way you choose to handle that is up to you and not for me to judge.
Jenny says:
My first response would be that I’m sorry for your loss. My next might be to ask how old/ how long ago, and then go from there depending on your reaction. One of my dear friends lost a child to cancer after a 2.5 year battle. Our children were the same age, born the same week. We remain very close, and we still talk about her daughter, and she still loves to see pics of my son.
It’s a crazy thing, but it seemed like once I knew someone that suffered such a devastating loss I became aware of others (too many, too soon). Maybe I’m just more in tune with the signs.
I would never let a loss impact my child’s choice of friends. I can’t say that I always like all of the other parents, but I certainly wouldn’t turn them away because of a loss. It’s usually just a personality/ parenting style thing.
By the way, I was also surprised during PreK and K that parents often stayed for a play date, or at least the first 20-30 minutes. I took it as an opportunity to get to know them. Those are some of the parents that I’m still friends with (4th grade, now).
Good luck! You have charming personalities. You’ll do fine. Seeing Maddie’s beautiful pics at your house might be a good way to introduce the topic. Otherwise, whenever you feel comfortable. I think they will understand.
My son shared about the loss of his friend with kids he played with. I waited and listened to see how it would go. A few times they even worked her into their imaginary play, which made her mother laugh when she heard the sweet stories. Kids are much better at handling loss than adults, in my opinion.
C Lo says:
You know, I cannot honestly really think that information would impact if your child was welcome in my home or not. That seems crazy to me! I have a 15 year old, a 9year old, and two five year olds. If they had a friend over and I overheard that conversation, I guess it would only matter to me in that I would think I’d have to have a talk with MY kids later if they asked about kids and death. Not that I’d avoid that or be mad at you or your family, you know? Otherwise, if your kid was an awesome kid, it wouldn’t make me want them in my home less. 🙂