It’s really hard to be a parent these days. There are so many things we have to consider, and so many people on opposite sides of each issue, that our minds are swimming. One of the hottest issues has been the debate over vaccines. While I am unabashedly pro-vaccine, my problem is not with parents who make the opposite decision. I hate that there has been a culture of fear around vaccines: If you DO vaccinate, you are exposing your children to autism; if you DON’T vaccinate, you are exposing your child to deadly diseases.
Last week the medical journal The Lancet retracted the article that made the link between the MMR vaccine and autism. This makes me happy because it hopefully will put an end to the fear-mongering that has surrounded vaccines. Still, it’s complicated because in the end, parents only want what they think is best for their kids.
The news of the Lancet’s retraction was the focus of the latest Momversation, and I was privileged to be a guest on the topic.
Vaccines and Autism: Debate Over?
ALSO – Everyone please be respectful in the comments!!! Discussion is great; name calling and the like are not. Please don’t make me close comments, with Annie here now I don’t have as much time to police everyone!
Kellee says:
DON’T get me started on Jenny McCarthy. I’m very happy they FINALLY retracted that. At least autism was a better concern than “this is the government trying to control us” reasons. It seems to make sense to me that a certain percentage of the population is always going to be sick or become sick at any given time. Especially when children are involved, and almost ALL children are getting vaccinated, some of those children are going to be autistic, vaccine or not. Just like a certain number of people that get the swine flu vaccine have a heart attack or a stroke, which they would have had either way. Drawing the parallels is a scary thing. I can only imagine how difficult it is, as a parent, to weed through the fear and find was is actually true.
.-= Kellee´s last blog ..Finally Some Photos =-.
Ann T. says:
Kellee dear, this post does not have to do with your comments nor does it have to do with pro/con for vaccinating; my response is only on the little ones. I feel since it has not already been mentioned through any of the 137 comments persons logged I must inform all that not ever child who have autism is born with/in this spectrum! This has been scientifically proven, please commenters be advised!~
K says:
I agree that Jenny M needs to get off her high horse. She has NO expertise in the area, but tells everyone the solution. SHE is one of the problems. In my opinion, people listening to her are getting a dis-service.
laura says:
pro-vaccine here.
i have seen too many times first hand the result of not vaccinating . in a NICU setting sucks more than trying to explain to a family that their healthy, full-term baby came to our unit in extreme critical condition with pertussis that they picked up from siblings and/or siblings’ peers who are not vaccinated.
as a mom i respect the right of all of us parents to decide what is best for our own child but at the same time, as a mom, particularly a mom of an ex24-weeker i find it exceptionally difficult to support choices that put my own child at risk.
excellent vlog!
.-= laura´s last blog ..this weekend- date night with the boys, next weekend- bonfire at the Big Top =-.
Rachel @seattlebabygear says:
In my Psych 101 class Freshman year of college I learned an incredibly important thing, which should be complete common sense – Correlation /= Causation. Some kids who are vaccinated develop Autism. Some kids who are vaccinated break their arms on the playground or break a window with a baseball. No causation.
rachel says:
Thank you, Rachel…if only you could sit down my insane cousins, who 1) don’t vaccinate, 2) live in the middle of nowhere and homeschool and 3) douse their kids in Purell. I live in fear for the day the mail man makes the trek up to their house from the mailbox to make a delivery and brings something like a cold…and wreaks havoc on those poor babie’s immune systems!
Kellee says:
Thanks, Rachel. That is exactly what I was trying to say, but yours was much more succinct and straightforward..
.-= Kellee´s last blog ..Finally Some Photos =-.
Heidi says:
I am pro-vaccine and I’m not worried about an autism link B U T
…I cannot blindly trust that they are safe. Many things that pass FDA appoval are later yanked.
…I think we give too many vaccines too quickly. Too much of a good thing is not necessarily good. Why are other industralized countries doing things so differently than us?
…Vaccines in the US are profitable. 3 doses of Rotavirus by 6 months? How many children (especially the ones whose parents would take them to the Ped to get vaccinated) are going to DIE or have complications from Rotavirus?
…Giving multiple live viruses at once seems, well, not in the best interest of the child.
My concern comes from having autoimmune diseases running rampant through my family. I am worried about overload. I refuse to beer-bong my kids with vaccines. Instead we take sips. My kids were both fully vaccinated by 20 months (except for Rotavirus), but I took many extra trips to the Ped to space them out.
I’ve come to despise the autism link speculation because it takes the attention away from what I think are legitimate issues. It’s not as black (AUTISM!) and white (VACCINATE!) as the media makes it out to be.
So many parents assume that their Ped agrees with govt guidelines. It’s similar to the circumcision issue. They aren’t going to offer their medical opinion until you ASK for it.
Sorry, off my soapbox now. It’s just that there are so many of us who are more in the “too much of a good thing” category, and no one can hear us over the autism hysteria.
.-= Heidi´s last blog ..What the Fuck =-.
Paige says:
My very healthy 3 year old ended up in the hospital with Rota Virus. She was not vaccinated because it did not exist when she was a baby. She was in bed for 5 days and in diapers (after potty training) from the diarrhea that just leaked out of her. She was absolutely 100% healthy and breast fed for 2 years on top of it. I INSISTED on the rota virus vaccine for my son (now 1). Had I not been able to get her medical attention, she could very well have become gravely ill. Rotavirus is responsible for over 500,000 deaths in children under the age of 5 worldwide. It is DEFINITELY a personal choice, I am only writing as a mom with a very scary rotavirus experience. I would never want another Mommy to see their little one that sick.
.-= Paige´s last blog ..This kid is gonna be JUST fine =-.
Heidi says:
First, I am so sorry to hear that your little one was so sick. I’ve had sick children as well and I know that fear. I am so sorry for you and your family. If I had had that experience I’d vaccinate against it too.
My point was that it seems strange to invest gobs of money into developing a vaccine, getting it approved for use in children, then marketing it onto the vaccine schedule when Rotavirus kills 20 children in the US a year. Twenty. One child is too many, don’t get me wrong, but I can’t help but think that they developed it based on profit potential rather than need, especially after Rotashield (the first Rotavirus vaccine) was yanked off the market for causing life-threatening intestinal problems. Even 500K deaths worldwide is a pretty small number. And it’s a live virus, so even just vaccinating your own children technically puts others at risk. For your family it’s a plus, and like I said before, I would want my children to get it too if I’d taken a step in your shoes. But I haven’t, and I really question why 3 doses are on our vaccine schedule. One dose would offer partial immunity, two doses even more, but three seems to start looking like too much of a good thing. Since only 20 of the 500K deaths worldwide are in the US, well then for other countries where this is a much bigger problem, absolutely vaccinate against it! But here it seems like a way to make money.
.-= Heidi´s last blog ..What the Fuck =-.
Jen says:
Excellent post, and my perspective is a bit different~while my then 5 year old daughter was hospitalized for a minor issue not related to rotavirus, I contracted it from hanging out on a peds floor.
It was the sickest I had ever been, as well as the most miserable. I could not fathom how a young child could handle this major assault to the body.
So I agree…vaccinate. These virus’ are no joke.
Traci says:
This makes me happy. At one point I was getting criticized for getting my preemie children vaccinations. My daughter especially because of how little she is (19 months old, 9 month clothes are still too big, but fit her length). But I believe this. If something were to happen to my children, I want the peace of mind that I did everything I could to prevent it… Including vaccinate. Thanks for the update
CarrieB says:
My ex husband is a paediatrician and he rubbished the supposed MMR/autism link from the start. An infant typically has the MMR around 13 months, and that happens to be when autistic symptoms start to manifest. The link was in parents’ minds, as they searched for a ‘why’, but the evidence now points to autistic disorders being inherited.
Statistically your child is much more likely to catch measles, and as you know, this can be quite serious or even life threatening. As you say, as if parents don’t worry enough already. I didn’t hesitate to have both my children given the triple vaccine. It can make your toddler cranky and miserable for several days though separating vaccines helps lessen the impact. My daughter was off colour for about a week, my son seemed to shrug it off quite easily. I never, ever regretted doing it.
.-= CarrieB´s last blog ..Norvege: dix points =-.
Cinthia says:
I feel bad for parents that have children with autism and I understand their need to find an explanation/cause, but jumping to conclusions based on one or two studies is very dangerous. I watched a movie about children with polio in India and how parents and religious leaders were skeptical and refused to givetheir children the vaccines because they worried it was secretly medicine that would sterilize their kids.
Misinformation can be hard to undo and I worry about the long term effects of this previous study, retraction or no.
Lesley O says:
My husband and I thought long and hard and educated ourselves thoroughly regarding the vaccination issue for our son. While I don’t doubt that some vaccines are necessary, I don’t believe it is necessary to give them all at once. Where we live the 2,4,6 month vaccines come with Hep B, a virus transmitted by blood (needles, sex, transfusions) due to “our large Asian caregiver population” per my doctor (my province is the only one in Canada that has it in there). As I don’t see that my son is at particular risk of getting hep B at this time, we opted to not give it to him for now. We also are following the Dr. Sears reduced/delayed vaccination schedule for others, so our son will eventually be fully vaccinated, just not all at once.
Toni Brockliss says:
My little boy is autistic and he is fully vacinated. I am taking him for his 4 year shot this week.
My son is autistic because he is. End of story.
My son is autistic and fully vacinated, but he was and is Elton first. That’s all I care about.
x
.-= Toni Brockliss´s last blog ..12 days of L.O.V.E – 8 =-.
Emily says:
Thank goodness that retraction was published! But yes, as Cinthia says, it’ll be extremely hard to undo the harm done by the previous study. It’s so much easier to spill a box full of pebbles or a pillow full of feathers than to clean it up again.
Autism is a terrible thing. But kids can die from mumps and chicken pox (and before vaccines, they commonly did).
(Also, I don’t believe I’ve commented on your blog before. Pleased to meet you!)
Emily says:
ETA- I didn’t mean to imply that the autism vs. mumps was a one-or-the-other. I meant that I don’t blame parents for being scared and wanting to do everything to prevent autism, even if it’s a link that’s not really true.
Barbara Howard says:
Such a tough debate! Moms are fearful on both sides…do I leave my child vulnerable to communicable diseases, or do I possibly expose him to a life-long condition for which there’s no widely known “cure?” I do think it’s astounding the numbers of autistic children we are seeing in the current generation, and my heart aches for their parents, for the special challenges they will face for that child’s lifetime. I cannot believe that NO mainstream research has established at the very least a cause, much less a cure or prevention for autism. I am also pro-vaccine, but with one caveat: that it be given with attention to the uniqueness of each child. I have three, now adults, and all were vaccinated. One had a pretty severe reaction to the MMR vaccine at the age of 2 months, and ran a dangerously high fever as a result. This is not uncommon, and high fevers can be quite dangerous for tiny babies, so I just hope we can exersize common sense for all children when giving vaccines.
Marie says:
Autism is genetic. If you do some searching online, you will see Autistic people don’t WANT to be cured.
Adrianne says:
Maybe you are confused with Aspergers or highly functioning autism. In severe cases, these children don’t even speak/communicate, so I’m not sure how you would know they “don’t want to be cured.”
Lindsay from Florida says:
Marie, please do some research before saying such a hurtful and ignorant thing. My cousin is severely autistic, and Adrianne is correct, there is no way to know what he wants because we have never had the privilege that other families take for granted: the privilege to hear what he’s thinking, the privilege to hold a conversation with him. As for my family, we LOVE him, of course, but if there were a cure, would I want it for him? Yes, I would. I want my aunt to be able to have her little boy tell her he loves her. I want my cousin to have choices about what he wants to do with his life, to have a voice, to have friends. I want my other cousin to have a life that doesn’t revolve around her brother’s ever-present needs. I want what only a cure could bring, and while my cousin can’t speak for himself, I believe he would want a life that isn’t full of constant confusion and pain.
It is abundantly clear that you have never known a severely autistic child to make such a callous and unfounded comment. I hope you will think a little more before writing something like that in the future.
Lexi says:
Actually, there is currently no known cause OR cure…maybe it’s genetic, maybe not. Hell, maybe it’s the way children react to vaccinations. Research is being done, but believe me, you can’t believe everything you find on google.
This was such a callous thing to say.
.-= Lexi´s last blog ..GAH. =-.
Lexi says:
*SOME children.
I have read that some children have an underlying condition that causes their bodies not to be able to handle vaccines. Hey, it’s one theory, and theories are all there are at this point.
.-= Lexi´s last blog ..GAH. =-.
Lynn from For Love or Funny says:
This, indeed, is one of the myriad reasons why being a parent is so difficult. I am pro vaccine. After my baby caught the flu, that was the last time I neglected to vaccinate for anything.
.-= Lynn from For Love or Funny´s last blog ..Signs of stupidity =-.
catherine lucas says:
The debate is really a non-debate. If there is only the slightest doubt that the combined jabs could be bad, as a european I wonder why they don’t do the jabs the european way:
We do not do combined jabs, we give the child one jab at the time and that could eliminate the whole debate…
Then you don’t have to be pro or contra jab… Just do one at the time and everyone is happy… And the discussion can be closed. Also a European saying: when there is smoke, there is fire. Who can be sure that the combined jabs are 100 percent risk free? The fact that the question is there means that there is doubt. Get rid of the doubt and give the kids one jab at the time. It can’t hurt…
.-= catherine lucas´s last blog ..Things to come… =-.
Christen says:
In America we are limited by the number of shots we can give our children. The majority of shots are combos and thats it, which is sad! I wish we could give “jabs” -as you call it- individually, because I do think it would reduce the amount of side effects that children have.
Brandi Sorensen says:
You can give your child one shot at a time instead of all of them at once, you just have to request it from your pediatrician. You do not have to give them the combo shots either, they can split them into individual shots. You just have to ask
Laura Crain says:
That’s not true – at least where I live. Neither our pediatrician or the health department have the vaccines available as individual shots. I have asked.
Lesley O says:
When I told our doctor (here in Vancouver, Canada) that I didn’t want the HEP B part of the combo vaccine, she told me that HealthBC doesn’t provide them with separate vaccines and so it was all or nothing. However, she then remembered that the booster that is given at 18 months does not contain the HEP B vaccine, so that is what she has used on our son for his 2, 4 & 6 month shots. As the rest of the shots are a combo package I did them. But I opted to postpone other shots that are given at the same time so that we could spread them out. I do wonder though if my doctor was being truthful about her ability to get the shots separate as I know of others in BC who have been able to have the shots administered separately over a period of time.
For those not sure what to do for their children when it comes to vaccination, I found the Dr. Sears vaccination book helpful. It doesn’t say “yes” or “no” or tell you what to do, but provides the risks associated with each disease/virus and the recorded risks associated with the vaccinations for said disease/virus so that you can make informed decisions. Sometimes I did find it a bit overwhelming and a somewhat of information overload, but Dr. Sears does provide a suggested reduced/delayed vaccination schedule for those who are confused and that want to vaccinate but don’t want all the vaccinations to be given at once.
And for those who aren’t keen on giving booster shots later down the road, you could always do Titer testing to see if your child is immune (saving them from unnecessary shots) or if they are not fully immune and indeed in need of a booster shot.
Christen says:
There are only certain ones that you can get single, not all and that was my point-we are LIMITED. My opinion is that Ithere should more options for parents, but we are limited by the shots that come in as a single dose as oppose to a combo.
Erin says:
I have been trying to get the measles only vaccine for my son since he is still immune to mumps and rubella from his first MMR. My pediatrician had told me that they don’t order them separately since there is such a low demand they would lose money. I just called Merck last week to find out where I could get the single measles vaccine and was told that they no longer manufacture it for distribution. They only manufacture it for use in the MMR. So, my son now has to be injected with two vaccines that he doesn’t need if I want to protect him against the measles. Nice..
gretchen says:
My son had a reaction to the Pertussis component in his DTaP when he was 4 months old. They narrowed it down to Pertussis based on his symptoms and the time frame after his shots when he first exhibited the reaction.
Thankfully, they were able to split up the vaccines into separate injections for the next visit. They CAN do it. I don’t think many doctors feel like admitting it, though, because it costs more and they may have to make a few phone calls. Our pediatrician had no problem splitting them up. Love them!
I am worried that he is not protected against Pertussis, though. Pertussis is one of the more dangerous viruses. He was a preemie with lung issues when he was born, so it’s frequently on my mind.
Loving Danger says:
All of the vaccines CAN be split many Doctor’s or Nurse’s just either won’t or don’t know they can be. I know that I had to pay to order my kids vaccines split (they are covered by our health care system normally) but to me it was worth it.
Dani says:
I do believe in vaccinating our children but I would rather be safe than sorry. 1 in 150 children are autistic, that is a scary number. When I was a child I had 10 vaccinations by the time I went to kindergarten now my daughter had 20 by the time she was a year old.
My daughter had all her vaccinations as scheuled except for the MMR. With the help of her pediatrition we decided to push the MMR from 1 year to 2 years.
I think we need the vaccines but we also need to make a decsion that will be best for our families.
Joy says:
Actually, per the CDC a month or so ago, its 1 in 110 children and like 1 in 78 little boys.
.-= Joy´s last blog ..Actually an uneventful Doctors appt. =-.
Lisa says:
Have you seen the statement Jenny McCarthy has now released? Sigh. It basically states that this is all one big conspiracy and the research is still good. The “big” pharmaceutical companies didn’t want a bad report out there, so they made it go away. And now they are touting a report showing that monkey giving vaccine lost some of their neurological functioning. If that was the case, wouldn’t we all have autism then?
Melanie says:
1 in 150 children is too high of a number to throw under a bus though.
The medical community is shaking is head on vaccines.. and has yet, isn’t it scary that they have yet to tell us why we are hearing such frightening high numbers?
The simple answer is because they simply have no idea.
Marie says:
Enough of the “frightening high numbers” already. Autism rates have NOT RISEN – diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorders like Aspergers Syndrome have. Why? Because Aspergers Syndrome wasn’t even INVENTED until the early 80s, and not really recognized until the 90s. The diagnoses are going up because doctors are now aware of Aspergers.
Autism is not scary or frightening. Stop the fearmongering and embrace autism.
Adrianne says:
It’s not scary to have a child who beats his head against the walls, bites himself, wears dieapers at age 14 and smears feces on the walls? You can embrace autism without claiming that it isn’t frightening. And I’d love to see documentation that says autism is NOT on the rise.
celeste says:
You are obviously not the parent to an autistic child. I am. I do believe the numbers are rising. Is some of rise due to better testing? Most likely. BUT, the numbers are now 1 in 110. I recently read that in the 80s it was more like 1 in 10,000. That cannot be attributed to better testing alone. I live with autism everyday and let me assure you, it is frightening. Thankfully my son does not have some of the more severe systems, but we constantly face challenges; challenges that you cannot begin to imagine unless you have walked this road too. I pray that they find a cause and a cure. I love my son and he brings much joy to my life, but if I could make his life easier for him, I would do it in a heartbeat. And by the way, we have 3 other typically developing children (although one is only 16 months, he doesn’t show any signs) and have no other family members on the spectrum. None. I do not believe it is entirely genetic – there must be some type of environmental factor as well and I just wish we could find what it/they are before even more children are affected. And my son did have all his vaccines, although I don’t necessarily feel like this is what triggered his autism.
Johanna says:
As a child, I had a “one in a million” reaction to the MMR vaccine. I stopped breathing, my parents had to give me CPR, I had to be airlifted to a major hospital where I stopped breathing three more times. And you know what? I am PRO VACCINE. My reaction, any reaction is possible but far less probable than the consequences of the diseases we are vaccinated for. I work with children professionally – specifically those from 6 weeks to 2 years and there is nothing that makes my heart sink more than reading “conscientious objection to vaccination” on a child’s medical details. In fact, part of me says a little prayer for the child everytime I read that…
Sarah says:
That autism/MMR ‘connection’ is Freakonomics shit.
I’d like to hear from parents with autistic, non-vaccinated children – I know you’re out there somewhere, feeling like assholes, but it would help immensely put this whole thing to bed.
Brooke says:
I don’t think it’s “Freakonomics shit.” I have an older sister who was functioning normally and developing normally until she had her MMR vaccine at 18 months. She ran a fever for 10 days after being vaccinated and shortly after that began to withdraw and failed to communicate from that point on. My father practically killed himself to find out what went wrong. My mother basically ran herself into the ground looking for answers and passed away when we were young due to illness brought on by the stress of my sister’s diagnosis and lack of an educated medical community. And just to throw this out there, my father is a pharmacist and my mother was a special education teacher so they were well educated to handle this type of diagnosis but didn’t understand where it came from or what caused it but had the resources to find the answer. Please remember we are the ones affected by this and to call this “Freakonomics shit” is unfair to those of us suffering at the expense of a couple of selfish researchers. Because of my sister’s reaction I have chosen not to vaccinate my 2 year old daughter until she’s at least 5 if at all. I don’t know you Sarah but from your comment I can assume you don’t know anyone personally affected by this so please don’t be so harsh in the future.
Tina says:
Very well said Brooke.
Your poor parents.
I look at my baby girls and pray I do what is right and never put them in harms way. My oldest received her vaccines until a reaction of a high fever and crying that went on for days. She is okay but I cannot do it again and I cannot vaccinate my second daughter.
Sarah, to refer to ANYONE with an autistic child as an “asshole” for not wanting to come forward to talk about it is more judgemental than any other comment I have read yet.
Melanie says:
You know, its still very very difficult to know what the “right” thing is. Medical science does not know everything, and I’m hesitant to say that because it was pulled from Lancet it means we are in the clear about vaccines. That McCarthy claims that pharmacutical companies can push unsafe products – that’s an unfortunate and scary Given. Studies absolutely controlled by those who are paying for their desired result. Have you ever researched as to why these study after study after study consistently contradict one other?
Thefact is, that the consumer will never know the truth about many “golden” medications. Thsese pharmaceutical companies DO routinely push harmful products on a frighteningly daily basis, without 99% of their consumers ever realizing just what it is that their medication is capable of. WITH the blessings of the medical community behind them.
My take on vaccines is this. Do your research and come to your own conclusions and ALWAYS respect another’s parents’ right to decide for their own children. Do not EVER put down another parent for their decisions on vaccinations.
lacey says:
usually i am strongly against putting down any parent for their parenting choices, too. however, as a few people have mentioned, an extra complication of this debate is that when a child is conscientious-objector unvaccinated, that puts OTHER children in danger. for example, children who have been unvaccinated for legitimate medical reasons (i.e., their bodies cannot handle vaccination X and their doctor says so) could catch disease X from a child who had been conscientious-objector unvaccinated (or even from some carrier mediator between the two children). when another parent’s choices put all of our children in danger, i think that we as a community should be allowed to voice objection.
Kate says:
Lacey,
I completely agree with you. While I agree that parents deserve to make decisions for their own children, this gets complicated on this issue.
Parents who don’t vaccinate and then put their children in contact with small babies who are not old enough to be vaccinated or children with health complications that can’t be vaccinated are risking the health of those other children.
The only reason parents can make the choice not to vaccinate is because the great majority of us make the decision to protect our kids from these diseases. It seems somewhat selfish to me. What if we all decided not to vaccinate?
a says:
While I completely agree, Melanie, that everyone should do their research, I don’t know if you’ve done yours. The study that was pulled from the Lancet was done by a Dr. Wakefield. Wakefield’s study was done at the behest of lawyers who were interested in suing pharmaceutical companies for causing autism. I’d say that’s a clear case of a study being controlled by those who were paying for results.
Vilifying pharmaceutical companies is counter-productive. I’m not saying that they’re perfect, but there is an element of mystery to body chemistry. You can’t possibly predict how every person will react to a drug. You also cannot get a sample of every type of person for a clinical trial. I worked for a pharmaceutical company that recalled a very profitable drug based on 6 deaths in hundreds of thousands of users. Clearly they were thinking of profit when they did that.
My point is that pharmaceutical companies are not evil and everyone has an agenda.
.-= a´s last blog ..Equations =-.
BethRD says:
“I do believe in vaccinating our children but I would rather be safe than sorry. 1 in 150 children are autistic, that is a scary number.”
But Dani, the whole point is that extensive study has shown that there’s no relationship between those two things.
Joy says:
The ‘extensive study’ has only shown that there is no relationship between the MMR vaccination and Autism. A large part of the Autism community believes that it has to do with the preservative Thimerosal in vaccines. As a parent with an Autistic child I have requested Thimerosal free vaccines for my other two children. I personally believe that my son’s Autism is genetic, but I didn’t want to take any more chances with his sisters. There was a third option to the “Vaccinate or not Vaccinate” debate and I took that one.
Leslie says:
As someone who JUST wrote a paper on this subject for my nursing class, I would like to add that thimerosal is not included in ANY vaccinations anymore with the exception of some of the flu vaccinations. Soooo I wouldn’t be too concerned about the effects of all the thimerosal. Because it isn’t there.
Marie says:
Thimerosal is a big word anti-vacciners like to throw around because it sounds big and fancy. It was never in the MMR vaccine, and is in extremely small amounts in the flu vaccine. You get more mercury from tuna than from Thimersosal.
Carmen says:
Honestly, I think both the video and this post is pretty anti-parent-who-chooses-not-to-vaccinate. Parenting is full for choices, most of which have risks and ALL sides should be respected. It seems almost like a bunch of parent bullies got together to beat on the other side in this video. I believe that you as a parent, have the right to make choices for your children, like for example, feeding your baby formula because of the breast milk jaundice which other parents may not do because as a person trained in breastfeeding, as long as the jaundice is controlled there is no reason to stop breastfeeding, but they don’t judge you for it because to each their own, right?
I am pro vaccine but I do my own schedule. And I believe in parents making informed choices and not judging each other- there is already so much judgment out there and I’m really disappointed in this post.
Heather says:
I’m so sorry you feel that way Carmen, because that certainly wasn’t my intention with this post. I am very VERY much on the side that parents have to do what THEY FEEL is best for their children. PLENTY of people judged me for giving Annabel formula for 24 hours, but that’s OK, I write a blog and I open myself up for judgement. In the video’s taping I said that, as parents, we have to research both sides of any issue because we are the ones that have to live with the consequences. And, as I said above, I have no problems with the parents who choose not to vaccinate. My problem is with the people who make parents feel bad about their decisions – and that goes with any issue, not just vaccines.
Ann T. says:
Oh sweet Heather, honestly I just love to love you and your little ones but I must say that I am sorry Heather as I too am very disappointed by what happened here today. I wrote our family’s experience in what I thought was a safe place/environment to share in. I am never against other parents choices as all parents only know what is best for their child/children not does the rest of the world [It is okay for me and mine to believe what we do and it is okay for all other parents to believe what they]. While it is that our family went through a horrendous experience especially the parents of our little nephew I do not think it is very polite for others to come on and start to disrespect others (persons who are desperately trying to help what is or has happened to their children (it is devastating wacthing your 5 year old slowly fade)) nor is it very comforting that so many parents decide that those parents who do not choice with them that they should then be ostracized and ridiculed them for choosing different. Please Heather, I will ask that you may remove my comments I chose to write on your blog. Sharing with you is usually a joy Heather as you so kindly share with us daily, thank you sincerely, but today it was different. We will only continue to support you, Mike, little Annabel and your family as you all take this beautiful journey together, but that is enough for us darling; please do remove my comments. Thank you love!
Lynn B. says:
Hi Heather. I just read your comment here about people judging you for giving Annabel formula for 24 hours and I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you had to go through that. I am particularly sensitive to this after what one of my friends went through. Before my friend even got pregnant with her first child, she kept having these problems with low blood sugar, dangerously low. In fact, during an inpatient test on her blood sugar, it got down to twelve! To make a long story shot, it turned out she had what is called an insulinoma. It was a centimeter sized growth on her pancreas that caused her body to continually pump out insulin. She had surgery right after they found it because it could have killed her, and nearly did several times. There were no obvious side effects until a couple of years later when she had her daughter. My friend’s milk never came in. Never. So, her daughter was raised on formula (and is super healthy by the way). Unfortunately, my friend was judged VERY harshly. Strangers would give her dirty looks and even make rude comments as she was giving her young baby a bottle. It was SO hard on her. We never know why people do what we do and it is so wrong to judge. I am so sorry people judged you for giving Annabel formula. You did what was best for your child and look how much better she is doing! I appreciate your blog and how kind and respectful you are to everyone. Thanks for being you!!!!
eliza says:
Nothing to say about vaccines. To each their own. But to anyone who judges you for anything, go away. And having an opinion about 24 hours of formula? Like that’s going to hurt her? That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Sorry I hope I don’t create another fire storm. I just can’t stand for anyone to get on your case for anything, but that one is just really stupid independent from any protective feelings I have for you. Bah!
Marti from Michigan says:
I fully, fully agree! I did not realize you were getting sniped at, because I haven’t gone back to the “archives”, just been reading the latest posts.
You did the RIGHT thing by putting Annabel on formula for 24 hours Heather, and I’m sorry you had to go through that too. I have totally fallen in love with the Spohr family and I will stand up for you anytime!
Marti B.
from Michigan
Amanda says:
My son is vaccinated (we’re a military family and it is hard not to vaccinate in this system). I haven’t done a lot of research, but I think it is worth mentioning that the autism link is not the only reason parents choose not to vaccinate. I really do wish that we had more options as far as individual vaccinations go, rather than huge combo shots.
Lisa says:
I am pro-vaccine. I think vaccines are an important part to our public health and I feel the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks.
The fear-mongering out there is scary though. Especially when are you pregnant or a new mom and wanting what is best for your child. You don’t know where to turn for true, accurate information. It is hard to weed through all the misinformation out there.
I think the debate is so important. I think research into vaccines is very important. The more educated we are the better decision we can make. Knowing that moms and dads are paying attention will hopefully keep the research going.
I’ve been lucky that Maya hasn’t had any reactions to her vaccines (not even a slight fever). I can understand the fear those parents have when their child has a negative reaction to a vaccine. I just wish the way the information was shared by the opposite side was a little less based on fear-mongering and more on sharing information so parents can make their own education decisions.
Glad to see momversation having this discussion.
.-= Lisa´s last blog ..New Text4Baby Campaign =-.
madge says:
Having one kid on the Spectrum and another on his way to being placed there, I have really beat myself up about having vaccinated my kids. Even before The Lancet’s retraction, I’d been assured six ways to Sunday that there is no link. But, you always second guess yourself, right?
I firmly believe that having access to these vaccines is a privilege. My parents had measles, german measles, mumps, etc. and have always celebrated the squelching of those epidemics.
My problem with all of this has been the unilateral zeal of the anti-vaccine contingent. Not only have they sparked an unbelievable amount of fear (that ultimately hasn’t achieved much in the way of provable research), but they have hijacked the attention of the public and those groups that might fund research focused on anything OTHER than the vaccine link. For 10+ years any other cause or contributing factor has been ignored and here we are back at square one. Thanks, Jenny.
Delay shots? Sure! If I have another child, I will certainly explore a different schedule with my pediatrician. But not vaccine your child? AT ALL? Nope. Can’t get there.
Cameron says:
Thank you. The assumed links between autism and vaccines have done nothing to help children with autism or autism spectrum disorders. Sure, there may be some connection between unusual immune reactions and the neurological differences in these kids’ brains, but the vaccinations-as-cause link was always a red herring. the conspiracy theorists are unwittingly impeding meaningful research into what is actually happening in the autistic developing brain. I hope the revelations from what happened in this misguided study can help get the research back on track. Autistic kids deserve better.
Jenny says:
Thanks for the “Momversation”. I heard this report on the radio last week and heaved a huge sigh of relief. I am pro-vaccination but with each shot (and there are a lot of them!) a part of me worried about the randomness of which kids were tied to vaccine-induced autism. Now I am left to wonder why, if the connection was false, it was left to fester for so long. As for Jenny McCarthy’s comments I think that if Big Pharma “made this go away” they would have done so many years ago. They’re not ones to languish on the sidelines, are they?
MommaLionessMichele says:
Excellent job, as always, Heather! I believe being educated is a parent’s best tool, and I didn’t blindly vaccinate my son – his pedi discussed the shots with us, including talking about autism, and we felt they were necessary. As a prego, I actually got into an argument with a friend of a relative about vaccines and autism – there is so much misinformation available. I support a parent’s decision to make the right decision for their family, but as another Mom wrote above, not at the risk of my family.
This was a great momversation, but I was hoping for a photo of Annabel too…
Thinking of you all from across the country,
MommaLionessMichele
.-= MommaLionessMichele´s last blog ..Me & My Mac: We’re Ba-ack! =-.
Gillian says:
Pro vaccine here too. I think they should be compulsory, actually. It is often not the unvaccinated older child who is at risk of major probs from catching these diseases, but the weakest members of society: tiny babies, people with cancer whose treatments have erased their immunities, immunosuppressed . . . Dana McCaffrey would have been 1 yesterday, but instead she passed away at 4 weeks old because she caught pertussis from an unvaccinated kid at her big sister’s school. Her mom just ran in to drop big sis off, and that’s all it took. I wish people all understood the importance of herd immunity. Bad Astronomy is a blog that talks about this often- he provides lots of science based info. Thank you for talking about this!
Emily says:
If only Autism were the only thing worrisome about vaccinations . . .
.-= Emily´s last blog ..52 Books in 52 Weeks: Same Kind of Different as Me =-.
Dorcas says:
Agreed.
Jenny says:
I am the mother of an autistic child. My child gets his vaccines. Parents should be WELL INFORMED and not let fear and hearsay form their judgments.
.-= Jenny´s last blog ..Remembering Ann — =-.
Amy says:
The saddest part is that people only consider fear of autism as a reason not to vaccinate. For us, worries of autism wouldn’t even make the top 10 list of reasons we don’t vaccinate. We’ve done hours, days, weeks, months of research–reading medical journals and studies, talking to our doctor, etc. There are a lot more facts to facts to consider when choosing not to vaccinate beyond a fear of autism. As parents we never make a decision based on fear!
Leslie says:
I would be very very interested in hearing some of your reasons. I’ve only ever really heard from the fear-of-autism group, and would be really interested to hear more about your thoughts on this.
KK says:
As the Mom of a child on the Autism Spectrum, I have no problem with vaccination. I do take issue with the schedule of vaccine delivery. I think it’s simply a question of too many, too soon, too often.
I think Autism is largely a genetic predisposition. However, I do feel that external factors precipitate & contribute to the occurrence of Autism. Regardless, whether it is vaccination (as evidenced by those who have seen immediate signs & symptoms of Autism in their children following), food additives, global changes, or pollution–the point is that a cause & hopefully, a cure, for Autism needs to be found.
Carmen says:
I agree. I have the same problem with the schedule of vaccine delivery. I personally consider it too aggressive in such a short period of time. But I am pro vaccine in the sense that I believe vaccines have saved millions of lives and continue to save lives today. To be honest, I don’t think the issue is if one is pro or against, as long as one is educated. I feel many parents do things “just because” or without even putting the minimum amount of effort into researching or they take their doctor’s word for it. That, to me, is not enough. And not just with vaccines, but with circumcision, breastfeeding, and any other controversial issue. I have heard so many mothers say to me “yeah, I’m circumcising because everyone does it.” or “nobody breastfed in my family so I’m just not going to”. That angers me.
C says:
You know, it’s this that frustrates me most. The singular focus on vaccines from so many regarding autism, keeps them and others from looking at other things. And even if vaccines activate some predisposition for some kids, I can’t see how it could be the case 100 percent of the time, and with the cases of autism rising like MAD, we should really be concentrating on any/all possible causes.
KK says:
C:
If you’d read my post fully, you would have noticed the main possible factors I listed that may/may not contribute to the occurrences of Autism (environmental, dietary, & medical). I do not discount any parent who definitely noticed a cause/effect with their child after vaccine administration because that is their story. It just isn’t mine. My son has Autism. Period. What caused it? I don’t know but something contributed to it. Genetics, exposure to any of the aforementioned factors, etc. My point was that the focus needs to be broadened beyond vaccines not diminished. The focus needs to be on discovering the causes, finding preventative measures to halt the rapid increase, treatment, & resources for those already effected.
C says:
Oh dear! I don’t think I conveyed myself well, lol. I meant to agree with you 100 percent. As a new mom trying to figure out what to do in ALL ways, from vaccines to food (in the future), even clothing, cleaning products and everything around us basically…I only wish that the way you feel was more common so that there WOULD be more focus on discovering the causes and finding preventative measures. Instead it feels like both sides just want to argue their side of this one thing and ignore anything else that could be of concern.
Rachel says:
I am a passionate vaccine researcher (I started more than 10 years ago when my
daughter was an infant). My journey started innocently enough when my mom’s
friend asked if I was vaccinating…and I said yes…why? She proceeded to ask
me if knew the ingredients and adverse reactions of the vaccines I was giving
her…and quite honestly I couldn’t answer her. She then asked if I would allow
my baby to drink the ingredients in a vaccine: aluminum, thimerosal/mercury,
formaldehyde, antibiotics, aborted fetal tissue. Ewww! No, of course not, I
told her. Then, she asked, how could I possibly allow someone to inject them
into her body? Hmmm…that was a good question. I then started looking for the
studies that prove vaccines are safe and effective…and here I am more than ten
years and a thousand hours later, still looking for the proof!
I’ve realized that most parents who question the safety and
effectiveness of vaccines become fearful because we are not following the
societal “norm” and because our doctors, government agencies and media (and, of
course, Pharma companies) have systematically created a vaccine campaign based
upon fear and misinformation. Merck’s Gardasil is a frightening example with
its “One less” marketing campaign (please read more about the effects of this
vaccine here: http://truthaboutgardasil.org/). Why else would holistic moms
like us NOT be guarded about all of these chemicals and viruses being injected
into our babies? In reality, and logically, no child contracts a disease
because of a lack of vaccine chemicals and contaminated viruses. A healthy
immune system is the key to warding off viruses and germs. We know this
instinctively! In reality, it is necessary for our children to contract illness
and build natural immunity. Dr. Palevsky (NY) discussed this at length at
various holistic moms chapter meetings/conferences. Pediatricians should be
reinforcing the safe, non-toxic ways to build their children’s natural immunity,
i.e. exercise, fresh air/sunshine, good nutrition, probiotics, supplements like
vitamin C/D, laughter/peace of mind, etc, instead of making parents feel
inferior and guilty if they don’t use pharma products to “protect” their
children. I had a renowned physician ask me recently, “when did parents give up
their right to care for their own children and just succumb to fear?” I said
we’ve been conditioned to think like this! You can refer to Dr. Mendelsohn’s
books for more information on this topic!
In reality, vaccines don’t create immunity; they raise antibody levels, as well
as inflammation levels (think about the sharp rise in children suffering from
asthma, eczema, autism…these are inflammatory disorders). According to Dr.
Palevsky: “Children are born with a cellular mediated immune system (TH1 cells –
T-helper 1), a humoral immune system (TH2 cells – T-helper 2), and a regulator
immune system (TH3 cells – T-helper 3) as major pieces of their overall immune
systems. These three arms are immature when babies are born, and begin to mature
as children are exposed to their environments through their nervous systems,
skin, airways and intestines. Antibiotics, poor nutrition, stress, exposure to
heavy metals and other environmental toxins, and the use of vaccines, may
interfere with the proper maturing process of these three arms of children’s
immune systems. In theory, if the TH system is allowed to mature, and is not
interfered with, children will develop a mature, balanced TH1, TH2 and TH3
immune system by age three.
Before making any decisions, it’s important to start researching the history of
vaccines from reliable sources. When you see that “Dr” Edward Jenner, the
“pioneer” of vaccines, purchased his medical certificate and was never a
practicing physician, you begin to question how he could properly test vaccine
efficacy and safety (and realize he couldn’t). Here is just one article on
this, as there are many: http://www.cyberclass.net/smallpoxvaccine.htm.
Interestingly, Jenner’s own son and that of his gardener, who were vaccinated
repeatedly, both died in their early twenties–reportedly by vaccines: “It is
pertinent that James Phipps, the eight year old boy vaccinated by Jenner in
l896, died at the age of 20. He had been re-vaccinated twenty times. Jenner’s
own son who had also been vaccinated more than once died at the young age of
twenty-one. Both succumbed to tuberculosis, a condition that some researchers
have linked to the smallpox vaccine.” (Eleanor McBean, The Poisoned Needle,
28,29,66 ).
Secondly, I highly recommend watching a variety of the webinars on the Medical
Voices site: http://www.medicalvoices.org . They are sponsored by Dr. Eisenstein, a
doctor/attorney from IL, who is extremely supportive of vaccine education for
parents and has a thriving practice of mostly unvaccinated children. These
webinars are free and most are extremely informative. I liked Dr. Stephanie
Cave’s and Dr. Palevsky’s especially. It is important to note that Dr. Cave
discusses vaccine risks in great depth.
Thirdly, I would get a copy of Neil Miller’s book: Vaccine Safety Manual for
Concerned Families and Health Practitioners. It’s a wealth of information and
can answer your questions of the chances of contracting diseases in the US.
You’ll be surprised at how low the rates really are, especially if you have a
healthy child.
I also recommend Dr. Tenpenny’s DVD: Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The
Choices. She has a companion booklet that goes with this, too. She provides
detailed information on each disease and the rates in the US. This DVD
convinced us that vaccinating was not the way to go!
Lastly, there is an excellent book by Tim O’Shea DC called The Sanctity of
Blood:
http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/book12/sanctity-of-human-blood-vaccination-is-not\
-immunization.htm
I hope this helps provide you with some of the information you are seeking.
It’s a journey, for certain, but once you gain the confidence in your decision,
you will hopefully never look back or question it. In the meantime, keep asking
questions until you get there and keep reading facts from unbiased sources:
http://www.naturalnews.com/027203_vaccination_health_vaccines.html
Katherine says:
Tim O’Shea is a chiropractor.
And vaccinations have been greatly refined since 1896.
There is so much dangerous misinformation in your post I don’t even know where to start or stop. I hope your kids stay healthy and don’t infect – or accidentally cause the death of – those they come in contact with who have weak immune systems.
P.s. Ask my cousin who survived childhood polio and walks with a limp what she thinks of vaccinations.
Gillian says:
Also, it is not really your kids at risk. If your child catches pertussis and gets around an infant before she has had the chance to be vaccinated, the infant is at serious risk of death, while your kid has a much better chance of survival. Since our vaccines are spaced out over several years – and some even say that’s too close – children cannot be fully protected before it is reasonable to leave the house with them. It’s the protection of the herd, not just the individual, that is at stake. I say, with fear, as I am expecting an infant soon, that it will take the death of thousands of infants, and the crippling by polio of thousands of others, (and the crippling in the womb of thousands whose mothers get measles or mumps) before we who have never lived through these widespread epidemics discover just why vaccines came out in the first place.
.-= Gillian´s last blog ..Why Does My Con Law Book Have to Be So Huge? And Other Conundrums =-.
Gillian says:
Oh and also – note that the number of heavy metals we breathe in the air and drink, both while pregnant and our newborn babies, are simply horrifying. It is a fallacy to believe your child is born pristine – most babies have far more heavy metals and pollutants in their blood and hair than their mothers, and breastfed babies receive through the breast all of the pollutants built up in their mothers’ fat cells over her lifetime. These statistics are proven and easy to find. I wish people were more up in arms about this, than worrying about the comparatively trace elements found in vaccines.
.-= Gillian´s last blog ..Why Does My Con Law Book Have to Be So Huge? And Other Conundrums =-.
Rachel says:
In regards to these “trace elements” you are talking about. Let’s take aluminum for example, 99% of the aluminum we ingest into our bodies through eating, breathing, etc….is excreted in the urine. However, aluminum that is introduced into the body in the manner that a vaccine is bypasses all the filtering sysytems in the body is stored in the fat cells of the body.
Megan says:
Oh dear. As a medical professional, I can honestly say I don’t know where to start with this comment.
Vaccines do NOT contain aborted fetal tissue, bb. The rubella vaccine virus is cultured in human cell-line cultures; at one point, some of this consisted of aborted fetal tissue donated to the cause in the 1960’s. This is not the norm now/no new fetuses are being used for this purpose, and the medium for culture =/= what they are injecting. And you wouldn’t give your daughter an oral antibiotic?
As for no proof that vaccines are effective… do you see rampant polio killing circa 52,000 children today? No? Well then
I’m also not sure you understand how vaccines work to promote immunity. They are not killing off natural cells or hindering the natural order of their development. Vaccines work by introducing small doses of either a dead or severely weakened virus/bacteria/etc. into the body so that they body will learn to develop specific antibodies for the disease in a non-life-threatening situation. If the disease is ever re-introduced, it does not take hold because the body recognizes the threat and releases the specifically coded antibody immediately rather than struggling to formulate it while the disease multiplies for days. Vaccinations teach the body to code defenses for threats before they become actual threats in order to evade a host situation should the need ever arise; I am unsure how this is prohibiting children from developing their own immunities through exposure since that is precisely what vaccinations are doing.
The smallpox/tuberculosis connection re: Jenner’s early subjects: aside from the fact that it is a logical fallacy to use primitive experimentation two centuries ago as proof against modern innovations, smallpox is caused by a virus; tuberculosis is a bacterial infection. They are 100% mutually exclusive; they aren’t even in the same kingdom taxonomy-wise. A virus (or innoculation employing one) cannot spawn bacteria; Spontaneous Generation was superseded by the Cell Theory, I hear Who are these “some researchers” claiming as much?
I am not arguing that there aren’t reasons not to agree to vaccinations (certain ones, at least), but not on these grounds. This is all desperate misinformation and I would hate to see anybody make a decision based on it
Leslie says:
Amen. And thank you for your well-informed and rational response, Megan. I didn’t know where to start either, and am glad that you were able to put together so coherent and respectful a response.
Heather says:
Oh THANK GOD. I research cancer vaccines and I’m so thankful for Megans EDUCATED INTELLIGENT response to Rachel’s twisted “half-truths” and straight up nonsense.
Marie says:
Rachel: you need to do some proper research. Following Jenny McCarthy’s outrageous fearmongering is not research.
blairzoo says:
I am in a support group for moms of kids with challenges, and I hate to say it but 4 of the kids had a serious and violent reaction to a vax and now have life-long disabilities. I’m not trying to stir the pot here, really. I believe that if a child has a weakness or predisposition and then they get a vax, the vax can be the thing that pushes that particular child into a problem. Across the board that isn’t going to happen to everyone. I also think that all the exposures to chemicals our little children have to deal with in their small, developing bodies is a factor.
If you want to vax your kids, I think the best bet is to follow the Japanese standards….they give them all but don’t start until a child is older, around age 2. Most babies aren’t going to be exposed to a sexually transmitted disease in their infancy. My doc agreed that one of the main reasons they give babies so many vax’s at such an early age is due to the fact that the babies are in the office regularly and thus they can make sure to give them all. There’s no reason why any mom couldn’t just plan to be regular about getting the shots when the child is older.
It sure is a hot topic and I truly believe that each Mom will make the right choice for her children, and it’s a lovely thing that we have that choice.
dawn says:
I’ve been to the funeral of a 9 year old who also had a bad reaction to her vax (except it was her DTP) as an infant. (And yes, even the courts and HHS agreed there was causation in *this* case.) She was a premie, had a reaction to the first shot in the series, was given the second shot in the series and that is when she truly regressed.
“I believe that if a child has a weakness or predisposition and then they get a vax, the vax can be the thing that pushes that particular child into a problem.”
This was our thinking as well – so we did space out Alex’s vax – Still did the combined jabs but we did 2 at a time – 1 with relatively no side effects (HiB, Polio) with 1 with more side effects (DTP, PCV) – If there was a reaction I wanted to be able to be able to feel reasonably confident that I knew which one had caused it. We did delay MMR till he was 2 but that was more because we were still finishing the shots from his first year. We haven’t done the Chicken Pox – we might, but there are others that are more important (IMO).
That said, I also nursed till Alex was close to two (believe me, not something I ever expected) and I stay at home with him. Husband and I are also reasonably healthy (we don’t even have a GP because we never have to go to the doc). If he would have needed to go to full time daycare we would have followed the schedule (I think).
Katherine says:
Your sad story is exactly why I believe that most kids should get vaccinated – so that those who genuinely can’t and shouldn’t can still be protected. I’d love to see research into identifying the risk factors.
And I am also a fan of spaced out vaccinations.
blairzoo says:
Well, the trick is that no one knows which kids are going to have a terrible reaction before they get the shots. Some might have a family history, but the kids I know all had siblings with no problems and then, boom, it scarred these kids for life.
Brandy new, fresh out of the womb babies do NOT need 7 vaccinations before they even leave the hospital. That is pure craziness. Breastfeed those babies and delay the shots for later.
Joy says:
And this is where all the research dollars SHOULD be going – identify the kids who are at risk of vaccine injury, educate pediatricians and parents and MDs to risk factors – 3 years later, with hindsight,
I can now say that the predominant trigger for my son’s regression into autism was NOT the MMR itself, but the fact that he had a raging IBD flare going on when we gave the MMR, and my pediatrician brushed aside the hideous diaper rash (it was cracked and bleeding for months) as nothing to worry about. 3 years later, we’ve got LAB tests – from 2 different labs (Lab Corp and NEuroImmunology) – showing massively elevated Measles titers (with no immunity to mumps or rubella). and all the symptoms of a Viral brain injury
.-= Joy´s last blog ..Actually an uneventful Doctors appt. =-.
Leslie says:
The only vaccination that brand-new right-after-birth babies leave the hospital with is hepatitis B – http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/child-schedule.htm#printable. Just FYI. I do agree that the number of vaccinations at both the 2 and 4-month visits is quite large, though.
Rebecca says:
I wish people didn’t focus so much on the autism/vaccine link. There are other issues we need to think about. How about the marked increase in autoimmune disorders that could be triggered by vaccines (asthma, allergies, arthritis, etc….). These are on an incredibale rise all over the country. And what is the one thing all these children have in common……vaccinations. I am pro-choice when it comes to vaccinations. I am from a state that requires the most vaxes in the country and we have the highest rates os autism and autoimmune disorders. I believe we give too many, too soon. There have been no scientific studies done that prove that giving multiple vaccines at one time is safe. there have been no studies done that prove that the cumulative effect of the vaccines is safe. And the government refuses to do a long term study of the health of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children. the reason = they are afraid of what they will find.
When you research this issue, you will be horrified at what th government has hid from us. Google SIMPSONWOOD and CDC
Just think twice and educate yourselves.
Oh, and I have brother with profound autism who is 35. So i have been dealing with this issue before most people had ever heard the word AUTISM. My mother believes he was born this way and I trust her judgement. but do I believe that maybe my children have a predisposition that vaccine components could trigger. If you were in my situation, would you take the risk??????
Leslie says:
As someone with both severe allergies and asthma, I think this is an interesting idea. However, as my vaccinations mostly happened before age 5 and my allergies appeared around age 20, I’m not sure the two are connected in my case. I think the increased prevalence of asthma and allergies is probably related to the fact that we live in a clean-happy society and don’t let our kids play in the dirt and eat fresh fruits and vegetables that were grown without pesticides and build up their immune systems. But I will completely admit that the medical profession has no idea whatsoever.
Adrianne says:
I totally agree with you. I don’t think we allow our immune systems to do their job these days. Everything is anti-bacterial, etc. But I can also see where vaccines could play into that as well. i.e. We’re not getting natural immunity anymore. I don’t know; it’s an interesting idea.
pixielation says:
I never held much creedence at the time about the autism/MMR link. Because when I needed to give my girls the MMR I did a lot of research trying to make the best decision.
What I founnd out back then was that firstly – the time for giving the MMR was a time (approximately) when the signs of autism were first noticed in a child – irrespective of the MMR jab, and secondly – in countries where they do not vaccinate for measles, it was a BIG killer.
So I decided to merely hold off from the MMR for a few months. Get past the 13 month mark by a few months, then do the MMR.
Every mother should have the right to make their own choice – but they SHOULD get good advice, and not fear mongering.
.-= pixielation´s last blog ..Going for birthdays, bolting and bling =-.
Jo says:
I wish that those professionals/researches who say the MMR is/is not linked to autism would then show the % of autistic kids with “who was vaccinated” and “who was not vaccinated” – we could then see if the %’s are the same within each group or if there is a huge discrepancy between the two. That information may be out there somewhere, but I have never seen it.
.-= Jo´s last blog ..I do. =-.
Marie says:
Actually Jo quite a few studies of exactly this have been done all over the world. I can get you the names of the studies if you’re interested. FYI – autism rates were the same in both groups.
Adrianne says:
I’m interested! I’d love to know the actual statistics of autism among vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Thanks in advance!
Heather says:
First congrats on Annie!! I have to say i have two children with autism. Our oldest son had his shots, so when Reed came long we choose not to give him his shots. Well long story short he has autism as well. They are now both up to date with their shots, and I have to say each year they are getting better and better. Some doctors tell us the fact that Jack was born three months early could had triggered it and the same with Reed. We as a family could not be any prouder of the boys. I am just happy God choose us to be their parents!
Lea says:
But have you ever looked into what medications you’ve been on? How many antibiotics? How many vaccines? It’s not just about the child developing Autism on his own, it’s also about what your body has been exposed to. You have this child in your system for 9 months. There are so many factors that can trigger/link Autism. Have you been exposed to high levels or mercury? Uranium? Etc…
Cameron says:
Sometimes children are born with conditions that have NOTHING to do with their mother’s choices, behaviors, environment or habits. Autism may not be something that is done to a neurotypical child– it may simply be the way an autistic child’s genes come together regardless of mom’s medical/social/environmental history. Blaming/shaming the mother is a dreadful past-time in this country with a long and vile history rooted in ancient suspicions about the power of conception and childbirth. Suggesting that a person has some kind of secretly poisoned womb that may have damaged their baby is just another aspect of this kind of lousy thinking. The proper reply to your reply, Lea, would be “Why would you EVER say that to a mother?”
Adrianne says:
See, I actually didn’t see the harm in that question. Those are the kinds of questions that we all need to be asking. Because obviously, something is happening to cause such a dramatic increase in autism rates. And it’s not unreasonable (imo) to question whether that something is happening in utero. We didn’t used to have such alarming rates of autism. What has changed? Are we taking too many antibiotics, getting too many sonograms, eating too much high fructose corn syrup, ingesting too many hormones, getting too much radiation, giving too many vaccines too quickly? We don’t know, but the first step is to start asking these questions without fear of offending people. How else will we find the answers?
Heather says:
Well Lea of course we have looked into every possibility known reason on why. Where i was coming from is i didn’t get to carry my kids full term. My oldest came at 24 weeks, and had heart, lung, and stomach surgeries. As for Reed he was early as well, but healthy. I believe kids with austim are senistive when it comes to certain things in their body. i know after five years of silence from from Reed we went organic for him and he started talking and responding slowly. But at the same time he also had a wonderful teacher who has a spot in heaven for all she did for him as well. i cannot tell you why or how things happen to us, but the reality of life is sometimes things just seem to happen regardless on how hard we try to make them right. My kids are my heros, they work very hard to do the simple things in life. I know as mothers we are very passionate on what we believe is right for our kids. But at the same time it is okay to look at both sides. What ever our beliefs may be, i know we are all gratefull to have the opportunity for another day to be our kids mother.
Lea says:
I didn’t mean to offend anyone. If I did I am sorry. But Autism needs to be taken with an open mind. There are so many new things that our generation has been exposed to. I think everything should be taken into consideration and questioned. There is no harm in questioning and really looking into EVERYTHING that is around us. Thanks Adrianne for seeing it my way.
.-= Lea´s last blog ..Projects =-.
Cameron says:
The problem with the questions presented by Adrienne, Lea, is that they are the wrong questions asked of the wrong person in the wrong manner. They aren’t helpful when the message recieved is “what did you do to you baby?” Mom doesn’t know. And to suggest that she should or that she didn’t do everything any reasonable person would to ensure the health and well-being of her child is worse than tactless. The questions need to be presented to doctors, researchers, pediatricians, immunologists and neuroscientists and the nonsense, speculation, and hysteria has to be pushed aside for real detective work, science and medicine.
Rising rates in autism spectrum disorders are the subject of a lot of concern among statisticians. How we count and who is counted is still in flux. Increased reporting and increased diagnosis is a major factor. The overall rate of children who are developmentally delayed or disabled has actually decreased (largely due to vaccination campaigns that prevent the sever damage formerly done by HiB and measles and the like). Some children who were previously marked as “retarded” are now called “autistic”. Some children who were previously considered merely eccentric or prodigious are now “autism spectrum”.
Autism in the classic sense isn’t apparently like the brain damage seen in hypoxic ischemic events or brain trauma– and it isn’t like cancer. It’s not an injury or a progressive disease. There’s no credible evidence yet that Autism is something that was “done” or introduced to a neurotypical brain. Though there are certainly children who exhibit autism-like behaviors as a result of cerebral palsy, epilepsy, or things like Turette’s Syndrome, everything seems to suggest that the sensitivity classic autistic kids have to social, environmental and dietary stimuli is part of their overall neurological sensitivity (not the cause of it) and appears most likely to be genetic.
There is nothing to suggest that the habits or medical histories of mothers have any predictors for autism. Some mothers of neurotypical children use hair dye and cosmetics, had long and repeated regimens of antibiotic treatment and eat diets high in processed, chemical, non-organic stuff. Some mothers of autistic children have never so much as been in the room when a can of Aqua Net was deployed and watch their healthy, organic, balanced diet closely.
What I read in that series of questions sounded an awful lot like the accusatory inquiries of people who used to blame pregnant women for exposing themselves to “miasmas” and “indecent views” when their children were born with club feet or birthmarks or red hair.
There is no way a mom can or should account for everything she has ever put into her body knowingly and unknowingly. Pregnant women have a lot more information now on how to avoid spinal column defects, how to prevent fetal alcohol syndrome, how to maximize health and nutrition to prevent some prematurity, but there is no test for autism and no protocol for preventing it because there is nothing so far discovered to suggest that it is something that happens to a child after conception.
So, put those questions into a proper hypothetical for a research grant proposal for your next neurocscience study and go to town, but don’t suggest that mom warped her kid. She didn’t.
Stimey says:
FABULOUS! Thank you. I have a child with autism. Vaccines didn’t cause his autism. Because vaccines don’t cause autism. The vaccine-autism connection has been discredited so many times but it is still out there, and that is a shame because there are a lot of really deadly diseases that can be prevented with vaccines. Also? Jenny McCarthy is ca-razy.
I wish that instead of putting all of this emphasis on chasing what turns out to have been terribly bad and dishonest science about vaccines, that we could work on making sure that kids who DO have autism have access to the therapies and interventions that they need to improve.
Thanks for being part of this!
.-= Stimey´s last blog ..Snowmageddon II: Snowmageddon* =-.
Becki says:
About a month ago, my daughter had yet to turn one, so we hadn’t received some vax like chicken pox and the MMR yet. To make a long story short, some friends that we hang out with DON’T vax, and the little boy got chicken pox. My daughter had been at his house the whole day prior, and now had been exposed to this.
What if it had been measles? mumps? polio? Sure, this time it was just chicken pox, but WHAT IF? I may be completely stirring the pot here, but here is a question I face:
Is vaccinating your children truly a personal decision?
I don’t know the answer, but I know that in this society we are very quick to throw out the “to each his own” idea simply because we don’t want to stir the pot. What I do know is this: parents who don’t vaccinate their children put others at risk. This really didn’t hit home for me until the previous instance with my daughter. In the 90’s a wild strain of polio entered Canada, and the only reason why it didn’t become an epidemic is because of vaccines. Now, I’m not sure it’d be so simple. Because of people who choose not to vax on the chance of Autism, our infants are exposed.
While this may not directly correlate, take smoking. It is labeled as a personal right…but aren’t others rights are infringed when they have to breathe in the cancer causing secondhand smoke? What do they do? Not breathe? Same problem with vaccinations…if someone chooses to not vaccinate, what about the rights of the people who don’t want deadly infectious diseases attacking from all sides? So who wins?
The answer is that no one wins.
I think the most reasonable way to approach it is to realize one simple fact: we know, FOR SURE, that diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, polio, etc can cause disfigurement and DEATH. However, we don’t know about Autism. In fact, it seems like more and more evidence is coming out “unlinking” the two. Evidence won’t come out saying that miraculously M, M, R, P will no longer cause death.
I personally LOVE the idea of extending out the vaccines. It used to be that way, but doctors noticed that parents weren’t bringing children back after their 2 year well checks. So, they started the schedule of getting as many in as possible to make sure that kids were getting the vaccines they needed. Even as pro-vaccine as I am, we extend ours out because I know that my kids will see the doctor, regardless.
I recently read an article a mom had wrote who hadn’t vaccinated her children and one of them died of a disease that she could have prevented. Now, she is pro-vaccine.
Sharon says:
Some preschool daycare facilities here in Australia make an up to date vaccination schedule a condition of entry unless there is a medical reason certified by a pediatrician for non-compliance. And even then they won’t necessarily give you a place for your child.
Katelyn says:
Thank You so much for posting this. I was never against vaccinations until my sister had a baby and she strongly put the seed of doubt in my mind. At first I held off with my daughters vaccines but now I am glad I went ahead with them. I do worry but its not something I think about daily. You are such a leader in the mommy online world. I appreciate your drive to make us other mommies feel better about our decisions, pro or con.
.-= Katelyn´s last blog ..8 months, 2 years and SNOW!!!! =-.
cee says:
Unfortunately because of the whole autism thing, the other very real risks of vaccines have been ignored.
Amy says:
Heather, Congratulations on the baby.
I need to espectfully disagree with your view here. I think Jenny McCarthy and others in the autism community speak based on what they believe to be their truths in their experience and research. I don’t think this is fear mongering, I think it is likely their desire to shield others from what they believe caused their childs autism. I think we need to understand that without being in their exact shoes, we cannot judge what are the firmly held beliefs that had enough viability to create this level of discord in the autism community. And for what its worth, even if vaccines are not linked to autism, the number of vaccines offered in a single visit in infancy and toddlerhood seems totally counterintuitive to me.
Heather says:
That’s a really good point. Honestly, the tactics employed by both sides of the debate are pretty reprehensible.
Thanks for making it!
Joy says:
Agree totally with this. I wish there was a way to get unbiased (eg, not funded by either side) research.
.-= Joy´s last blog ..Actually an uneventful Doctors appt. =-.
Gillian says:
There is a blog called the Jenny McCarthy death count which lists the number of children who have died of vaccine preventable diseases since she began her crusade. The number is on the rise, frighteningly on the rise, and directly correlates to the drop in vaccinations (obviously). I believe that honoring her opinion and listening to her is incredibly dangerous, actually, while I sympathize with her plight and believe she deeply loves her son. You should know, too, that she has said that people would rather have a dead child than a “shadow child” (her name for autistic), which I think the autistic community may find insulting and untrue. Everything she says comes out of pain, there is no doubt, but there is also no doubt that her influence is killing children.
.-= Gillian´s last blog ..Why Does My Con Law Book Have to Be So Huge? And Other Conundrums =-.
Emily says:
I agree that there are too many shots given too fast in too big of combinations to babies. I think the long-term effects of this have not been close to being adaquately studied. I’m sure that in the next generation or two, we’ll see what long-term effects multiple combination shots in the first year of life tend to cause.
Instinctively, I don’t believe that vaccines alone cause autism. However, I do believe that for some kids who are genetically predisposed, vaccines (figuratively) push them over the edge into autism. There are too many stories from too many parents about this happening to their children to deny this, such as Jenny McCarthy’s son. The same thing also happened to a dear friend of mine, whose son began to regress after his 15 month shots.
Also, I think it is more than just vaccines that affect autism. Pollutants can be found practically everywhere in our world today: flame retardants on clothes and furniture, pesticides in food, hormones in meat and milk products, many of us adults carrying heavy metal loads that we inadvertently pass on to our children in utero. In the past 100 years, we have become a society VERY dependent on chemicals, and I don’t think we are even close to knowing how those chemicals have and continue to affect us.
We have practically EVERYTHING to learn about what causes autism. While Wakefield’s research may have been insufficient to prove a vaccine/autism link, I hope researchers will not be quick to dismiss any vaccine-autism link in the future. Researchers shouuld not ignore ANY possible link, even unlikely or unpopular ones, until a cause for autism is discovered. Everything that could possibly be polluting our children’s brains should be a candidate for research.
.-= Emily´s last blog ..perhaps no direct vaccine link to autism, but still reason for concern =-.
Marie says:
“I hope researchers will not be quick to dismiss any vaccine-autism link in the future.”
They have not been quick. There have been studies done all over the world and NONE of them have found a link between autism and vaccines. The debate is OVER, the science proves it – but some people (Jenny McCarthy and co) will not drop it.
mmc says:
Don’t forget that vaccines don’t just protect the people who are receiving them but everyone else they encounter. People refusing to vaccinate their children for pertussis are not only exposing their children to a horrible disease (have you ever hear a child with a classic whooping cough? Look it up on youtube. It is heartbreaking) but exposing all those around them to that disease when they catch it. Many vaccines aren’t lifelong, but they do get us through critical vulnerable periods like childhood and, when everyone is getting vaccinated, diseases get eradicated so it doesn’t matter too much later on that we lose our vaccine immunity. However, when people stop getting vaccinated, they break the chain of immunity and can now expose those whose vaccines are past their shelf life. Pertussis is becoming a problem now because adults are getting it because their immunity has worn off and people won’t vaccinate their kids. The adults get it then give it to kids who never got vaccinated and the problem continues. And if we were to just vaccinate everyone and follow the advice of the ENTIRE medical community and appropriately disprove the fringe (like we appropriate discredit the fringe of people who swear up and down global warming isn’t happening) we could eradicate pertussis! This isn’t just an individual health issue. It’s a PUBLIC health issue that affects all of society.
Finally, the rise in autism could very well be just because of increased diagnosis of it. For example, say that having a pinky finger between 3.5 and 4 inches long is indicative of some random medical condition, but it’s still not well understood and so people aren’t looking for that pinky size and aren’t diagnosing. Then say that med schools push diagnosis of that pinky size and a whole new generation of physicians get trained to look for it. All of a sudden, half of America is diagnosed with that medical condition. Did half of America just contract it? No, but the medical community did get a whole lot better at diagnosing it. It’s statistics. They’re wonderful.
And that’s why I wish they required statistics and public health classes in school, because we could save a whole lot of time and a whole lot of lives by educating people about these basic principles. VACCINATE YOUR CHILDREN. For their sake, for the community’s sake, and for the sake of the future. And if 99 out of 100 professionals who have spent their lives researching a topic have scientifically come to the conclusion that autism is not linked to vaccines, you should trust them. That is much more logical than believing the 1% who don’t agree and who have had their research methods and findings discredited time and again.
Marti from Michigan says:
The son of a friend of mine died from Ewing’s sarcoma 8 years ago. When he was receiving chemotherapy and after he had a stem-cell transplant, he was ordered by his dodctors to NOT go near vaccinated babies, because he could pick up what they had been vaccinated for – pertussis, TB, hepatitis, etc. To me, that’s pretty pathetic.
Christina says:
Pro-vaccine here too. I am biased, as my SIL is an infectious disease pediatrician who specializes in vaccines. Despite dedicating her life to research on the topic, even she is given ” advice” on the topic by fellow parents. Anyways, I’d love to see Jenny M. step up and come out with some sort of scientifically based research to back up her thought process…
Melanie says:
Definitely pro-vaccine in my world.
I spent last summer with my 16 yr. old daughter who contracted pertussis. I felt like it was some Little House on the Prairie disease, but she had it and it sucked. It was a rib breaking, black eye making, turn you blue cough that lasted over 3 months. What if she were an infant? She is a strong girl that lost a summer…I couldn’t imagine a baby getting that disease.
Here’s the deal; she was vaccinated. What they don’t tell you is that pertussis is on the rise (partially because of people choosing not to vaccinate – grr) and that you need a booster every 10 years. Awesome. Now I know yet another fact the hard way.
I’m glad you were able to add your voice to supporting vaccination.
Meg...CT says:
This is what so many people don’t realize, that getting the shot does not eliminate the possiblility of getting the disease…but, greatly reduces your chances if there were to be an outbreak.
We chose to vaccinate our children…really, when my oldest was an infant I never considered not vaccinating. Then several years later, the Chicken Pox vaccination was introduced…I had a couple more children by then (all vaccinated), but was conflicted as to whether or not to give the Chicken Pox vaccination..I did hold off on giving the Chicken Pox vaccination after some personal research and advise from my pediatrician. I had the option, b/c schools were not requiring it (yet) for enrollement. Three of the kids got Chicken Pox…ugly, but we lived to tell about it. Two of them got the shot b/c several years later, it was required for admission to school.
Did I do the right thing? I have NO idea. By introducing the Chicken Pox virus, did I open them up to the possiblility of Shingles later in life? I don’t know. I hope not, but maybe. By giving the vaccination, do they now run the risk of getting the disease later in life when it is more dangerous? I don’t know. I hope not, but maybe.
I made the best decision I could at the time for each child.
Now I face the same decision on Gardesil for the girls…I will research and get advise from my pediatrician and then I will do what I think is best for the girls with the information I have.
Will it be the right decision? I don’t know. I hope so. But, I know it will be what I think is best for the child.
Unfortunately, we can do all the right things and things still go badly. Heather, sadly, you are an expert in that field…
As mothers, I am always surprised at how unsympathetic we are toward each other when it comes to debates suck as this.
Everyone has a story to tell. They are never the same story, yet we want to put each story in the same shaped box…it doesn’t work that way. Life gets in the way and we become who we are through experiences…it shapes our outlook and therefore, the decisions that we make….right or wrong.
Hoping sweet Annie is filling your days with joy…
Meg...CT says:
Sorry, Melonie..I didn’t realize I attached my post to yours…didn’t mean to. I agree with your position though :o)
Sorry your daughter had a miserable summer..but glad she is doing better.
Christina says:
Rachel…wow. Just read your post. WOW is about all I can say. Seriously people don’t take any of that as fact…
Rachel says:
You are welcome to disprove all of it.
I just feel there is no harm in investigating both sides of an issue before making a decision.
I don’t look down on those who are pro-vaccine. That is their choice. I do what I feel is best.
You might be surprised to know that my children are partially vaxed and I will finish all their shots on MY timetable, not the government’s. I am pro-choice about vaccines and in the state I live in, we have no choice about vaxes if we send our kids to school. This state also has the most mandated vaccines of any state and is home to the headquarters of most of the largest pharma companies. It’s scary…..
Just one more thought….Alot of people are talking about “herd immunity.” Let me ask a question: if the dr. told you for a fact that your child would have a very severe/life threatening reaction to a vaccine, would you still give it to them for the good of “herd immunity?” I think not. We are alll a little selfish that way.
Gillian says:
I wouldn’t have to, if the rest of the herd were immunized.
.-= Gillian´s last blog ..Why Does My Con Law Book Have to Be So Huge? And Other Conundrums =-.
Katherine says:
Honestly, I’d love to see some serious research $$$ go towards identifying who can safely be vaccinated and who should not be. Imagine if a simple blood test could answer that question for each family. Then most kids could go ahead and have the shots and those who can’t would still be protected.
Until then, yeah, I’d say somebody with autoimmune diseases in their family would want to confer with their pediatrician and space the shots out or whatever.
On the other hand… I have a good friend whose Chron’s disease was ignited when she got measles. Apparently she wasn’t the first.
Two Makes Four says:
Ah, the vax debate! It’s starting to become one of those things you don’t discuss at the dinner table. My daughters were fully vaccinated through 9 months. All the while, the decision to vax sat like a rock in the pit of my stomach. At the 12-month appointment, I decided to stop vaccinating them. I may have them do a few shots along the way, but overall I feel kids in the US are overly vaccinated. I’m highly suspicious of pharmaceutical companies and the FDA approval process.
This is such an important decision. Whether parents choose to vaccinate or not, they should be informed of the potential consequences of their decisions.
.-= Two Makes Four´s last blog ..Date Night =-.
Megan J in Ohio says:
I have to say I really agree here. I DO NOT trust the FDA approval system. I DO NOT trust the pharma companies. I space my children’s vaccines out, and I do not start them as infants. I generally start them when I feel they are strng and ‘fat’ enough to be able to handle a moderate reaction – i.e.- not willing to eat for a day or so, feverish, fussy, etc. I also pick and choose which vaccines I give my children. We do not do the Hepatitis B, Gaurdasil, flu shots, or rotavirus. I also make sure my children are only vaccinated with vaccines that DO NOT use aborted fetal tissue. I could never, ever cannibalize another child to vaccinate mine.
We go slowly, and watch how the kids react to vaccines before we allow them to continue with them. I always have a knot in my stomach thinking about the implications. I do vaccinate, however, on my own terms. I have nine kids and have learned that noone is going to advocate for your child but you.
.-= Megan J in Ohio´s last blog ..I’m Still Learning =-.
Katrina says:
Megan,
So funny, while reading your comment I was relating to it, as this is how we do our vaccinations, too. I am also the mom of nine:) My 3 older kids are now fully vaxed, my middle kids are almost done with thiers, and my youngest still have not begun their vaxs. We take it slow, do one at at time, and we watch each child’s reaction. We also wait until the baby is fat and chubby and strong enough to handle it. This is not the “right” way and this is not the “wrong” way but this is our way and the way we feel comfortable doing it. We also don’t do all the vaccinations but only those we consider true risks.
.-= Katrina´s last blog ..got a tissue? =-.
Megan J in Ohio says:
Katrina,
I always love it when you find someone likeminded out here in the blogosphere! I always feel like I am so different from other moms! Nice to “meet'” you!
.-= Megan J in Ohio´s last blog ..I’m Still Learning =-.
Ania says:
There are no vaccines out there currently that use fetal tissue!! That was half a century ago, so please be up-to-date when throwing something like that out there. Thank you.
Megan J in Ohio says:
Fetal tissue from two cell lines is still used to grow viruses for anti-viral vaccines, such as the chicken pox vaccine. Many people have no problem with this, but I just cannot justify it. There are other options, so I take the other option.
For the sake on information:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/238012/fetal_tissue_and_the_production_of.html?cat=34
Some may not have a problem with this, I just cannot do it. THis is a vaccine schedule which details the vaccines that use the cell lines of aborted babies.http://www.cogforlife.org/fetalvaccines.htm
This was from November of 09.
Don’t want to start anyting here, but just wanted to let you know that I do my homework.
.-= Megan J in Ohio´s last blog ..I’m Still Learning =-.
Jenn says:
This is just a small list of ingredients found in some vaccines:
http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/ingredients.htm
.-= Jenn´s last blog ..Trials and Tribulations =-.
Ania says:
Megan,
Your Associated Content link is a site with no verification available. Mine is from the CDC:
“Fetal Tissue and Vaccines. Some vaccines such as rubella and varicella are made from human cell-line cultures, and some of these cell lines originated from aborted fetal tissue, obtained from legal abortions in the 1960s. No new fetal tissue is needed to produce cell lines to make these vaccines, now or in the future.”
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/
Yes, they used to utilize aborted fetal tissue…but there Is NO NEED to do it anymore, as they have obtained the cells needed to reproduce vaccines! Again, this is old information being used to create fear! Please don’t fall victim to this.
Ania says:
Jenn,
Again, the mercola website you provided is not verifiable – anyone can go and create a website and litter it with health ads to make it look legit. Please use utmost caution when spreading this type of information…use credible websites, because what you linked to is simply not true.
Ania says:
Sorry for posting again, but I wanted to clarify the cell lines of aborted fetuses (WI-38 & MRC-5). The 2 cell strains that were derived from fetuses have been growing in a lab for 35 years! The cells reproduce themselves, so there is no need for additional human tissue.
http://www.nnii.org/immunization_issues_detail.cfv?id=32
11 references follow this article, so I would rather base my decision on studies that I can find and read, rather than a blog entry or an un-verifiable website.
I absolutely respect your decision not to vaccinate, but the information you guys gave omn such a widely read blog is simply not true. I hope that I at least made you question this. :o)
Megan J in Ohio says:
Hi Ania, I should have been more clear to begin with, but I think I emphasized in my reply, as well as with an article from About.com that stated exactly what you are stating, the cell lines are from aborted fetuses, and while the cells reproduce, I personally cannot justify the use of vaccines derived from them. I just feel that I cannot use another child’s body to protect that of my own. Those children were aborted 40+ years ago, yes, but to use them is something I cannot fall in line with. I DO vaccinate (eventually), I asked my doc to order specifically for my family, but luckily, she already used the appropriate vaccines.
.-= Megan J in Ohio´s last blog ..Our Winter Wonderland =-.
Ania says:
I understand your point. I guess I view it differently, how an aborted child that had such a cruel fate was still able to make such a difference – that a scientist that wanted to do good by helping milllions of children better fight disease, was able to save lives from a mother’s fateful decision. I personally find it amazing!
Lisa says:
My kids are on a delayed schedule. I have a BS in Biology and took coursework in immunology, so I probably have a better understanding of the theoretical aspects more than the average person.
While, from a public health perspective, the current schedule may make sense, for many individuals it does not. The sheer number of vaccines given to babies at a single appointment is disturbing, and the fact that all of these contain preservatives, including aluminum, makes me hesitate in having them administered more than one at a time. Not to mention if your child should have a reaction, it makes it that much harder to track.
Autism was never a concern for my family, as there is no history to indicate we have a genetic predisposition.
However, that doesn’t mean there aren’t risks. Some vaccines, such as the Rotavirus vaccine, contain live virus that can develop into a full-blown infection, and are not necessary for the majority of babies.
Others, such as DTaP, I feel are important and do on schedule.
I think it’s also very important to remember that as adults, we have an even greater responsibility to ensure our vaccinations are up-to-date and effective. Many of us given the MMR in the 70s and early 80s may be at risk due to receiving weak vaccines, and thus able to contract and pass these diseases on to our kids before their vaccinations are completed. Just because your 1yo has had one dose of the MMR does not mean they have any protection against those diseases yet, and in some cases may be even more susceptible if they are infected. I worry much more about my kids getting sick from an exposed adult than another child.
Carmen says:
I agree. Too much too soon. Vaccines may be a good thing but what about the stress it creates on the immune system of an infant, not to mention a preemie? That concerns me.
Joy says:
Here’s the thing – parents make the best decisions they know how to for their child.
In this country we have freedom over our bodies, and that means that we cannot be legislated into injecting anything into them.
There are pro’s and con’s of vaccinating, and particularly of vaccinating on today’s schedule. I wish people would take a step back, and stop acting from a place of fear – on both sides. And educate themselves.
That said, we delayed vaccines, and gave one at a time. And had a regression (at age 3) whose timing, and subsequent lab testing correlated to the MMR shot we’d given shortly before. We now have a medical exemption to vaccines, from an MD.
I don’t think that alone, the MMR would’ve caused a regression, in my son’s case, it was a perfect storm. I wish I had waited just one more year, and my day to day struggle is now getting my kid back to a point where he can speak again – literally, he went from speaking in sentances to being at best mono-syllabic. He’;s 5 now, and we are hemmoraging money for ABA therapy – but he now can say 3 syllables in a row. at AGE 5. It has been the most horrifying experience of my life.
.-= Joy´s last blog ..Actually an uneventful Doctors appt. =-.
Suzanne says:
I am so sorry to hear that, I hope he gets better!!
Undomestic Diva says:
Speaking of babies, couldn’t help but laugh at the Jonas Bro ad before the Momversation video began.
.-= Undomestic Diva´s last blog ..Special Appearance =-.
Heather says:
It makes me snicker every. damn. time.
Christen says:
I am pro-vax, and I see it as my way to help those that can’t. I’m not going to do something that could risk the life of other child. Sure, I could prove a point and not vax my child, but then, I would be scared to take them anywhere and what kind of life would they have?
I have friends that would LOVE to be able to vax their children, but due to circumstances (allergies to egg, other medical issues) they can’t. I won’t dump these women as my friends and I do what I can to help protect them and make sure that my daughter doesn’t cause them any undue sickness.
But thankfully, we live in America were freedom lives. You have your choice. Sure, I wish there were more choices open to us (less combo’s, more pedi’s okay with spacing them out) and that will come. And hopefully since this study has been proven void (which, if you read about HOW that guy collected information its really awful!), we can focus on the reforms that could be made to childhood vaccines! But that doesn’t mean that we get rid of them!
MaNiC MoMMy says:
Haven’t checked in for a while. Congratulations on the birth of Annie. She is beautiful. It’s been a tough road for you guys, and I wish you peace and blessings as you raise her and teach her about her awesome big sister Maddie! God bless!
.-= MaNiC MoMMy´s last blog ..SuNDay BLooDy SuNDay, PaRT V, FeB. 7 =-.
Megan says:
I do believe in vaccines but at a slower pace then CDC recommends. I also worry that vaccinating for everything (things that are not serious in most people like the chicken pox, roto virus and swine flu) makes us in danger of not having strong immune systems. Also as someone who works with autistic children we do need to know where it comes from because the amount of children diagnosed is outrageous and we should look under every rock.
.-= Megan´s last blog ..In Bill we Trust? =-.
Marti from Michigan says:
My daughter had all 4 of her kids at home with a “lay” midwife. No drugs at all, no episiotomies and her biggest baby was over 9 pounds. I watched all of them be born, and the winter babies were born to a roaring fire in the fireplace. The one summer baby didn’t need a roaring fire.
She chose not to immunize any of her kids and so far, there has been no problems. They all went through chicken pox already, all 4 of them had it at the same time. There has been no whooping cough or any other thing like that. None of them ever had ear infections or things like that. The oldest is 12 now, the youngest just turned 5. In going to public school, all my daughter had to do was sign a form saying the school would not be held responsible if the kids caught something communicable. That has not yet happened. She takes them to a doctor, but he is OK with her decision. She does get them tetanus shots and flu shots, however.
Just my 2 cents worth.
LD says:
But the problem is the more people who do this, the more likely it is that diseases will become rampant again. Her choice doesn’t just affect her children; her choice affects mine as well
.-= LD´s last blog ..Best Album of 2009 =-.
Marie says:
Marti: that’s what people are talking about when they say herd immunity. Those kids are safe because everyone else is immunized so they are not exposed to those diseases. If everyone was like your daughter and nobody was immunized – things would be very, very different.
Rach says:
As a former special education teacher, I will say this in regards to the growing number of children with autism:
When I was teaching, If a kid so much as squirmed in his chair during a 10 minute lesson or coughed to the right instead of to the left, he was labeled as something, usually autistic.
The labels that we so desperately cling to as parents are also overused in the schools and in many governmental agencies.
What we call “austistic” now, people 400 years ago called “creative”. It’s a matter of semantics, and it’s driving us all mad.
That said, there ARE children with severe neurologic/social interaction issues. I am not discounting that at all.
But let’s just drop all the labeling.
And also, I’d rather my kid have the odd reaction to a vaccine than, say, get polio or pertussis or the measles.
.-= Rach´s last blog ..this will probably change =-.
KK says:
I would love to drop the label of Autism but unfortunately it is the only sure way to almost guarantee my son gets what he needs medically & educational. I’ve told many healthcare & educational professionals that they could call him a “Smurf” if it would provide him with the needed services.
Kristi F says:
Exactly, without the Asperger’s “label” our insurance would not cover my son’s social group or individual therapy sessions that have helped him so much over the last 2 years. Plus, the school would not be nearly as willing to work with us on his education requirements. He is highly intelligent, but his ability to process information is much slower than his peers so extra time is required for most schoolwork.
Joy says:
I disagree entirely. What we called CREATIVE 400 years ago did not consist of children who smeared feces on the wall at age 10… of children who not only cannot speak but cannot communicate. Who do not make eye contact, eat their own clothing (pica), or dirt, or any other non food item compulsively, walk only on their toes, spin uncontrollably, flap their hands, stare outside the window for hours on end… have siezures, have major gut dysbiosis…
i could go on and on, but 20 years ago, when i was in middle and high school, we didn’t have any kids in the special needs area with symptoms like this… the kids there all clearly had chromosomal disorders, or mental retardation.
The symptoms of autism – and i’m not talking high functioning, i’m talking the regressive kind that strips our children of their skills – are so much more extreme than people get if they don’t live with it on a day to day basis.
Thats what I wish, that everyone brushing off autism diagnoses as the DxDuJour, would live with it for a week.
.-= Joy´s last blog ..Actually an uneventful Doctors appt. =-.
Sarah says:
No, 400 years ago the kids would be left to the wolves. 20 years ago they would be institutionalized. Of course you didn’t go to school with people who had the symptoms you listed – society had no freaking idea what to do with those kids. T
The shame factor for people struggling with kids who have these problems is lessened, too – people are talking and when these people talk – mass media makes it so we all can listen. I don’t think it’s the diagnosis of the day, just that awareness has made it feel like it is.
Rach says:
Joy – let me clarify, please. Let’s not drop “all” of the labeling, but let’s not be so QUICK to label. I was SO frustrated as a special education teacher because the kiddos who TRULY needed the services (sounds like your child is one of those kiddos) were not getting them, and the kiddos who were not truly autistic but just had crappy home lives and were acting out in the classroom thusly were being labeled with autistm. It drove me mad.
Autism IS the diagnosis du jour, and that SHOULD tick you off…because if your child actually HAS it, and your neighbor claims her kid has it because he is a tad bit hyper, it lessens the amount of attention your kid gets…the kid who truly needs the attention and services.
Stepping off my soap box now. Thanks for letting me clarify.
.-= Rach´s last blog ..this will probably change =-.
Rach says:
p.s. for those who don’t vaccinate at all, be thankful that the rest of us do…we’re protecting your kiddo, in most circumstances.
Wow, Heather, can of worms here…
.-= Rach´s last blog ..this will probably change =-.
Rebecca says:
The vaccine debate bothers me…….I just wish more vaccine free parents of kids with autism would come forward because I believe that would help reassure the vaccine-phobic.
.-= Rebecca´s last blog ..Saturday School =-.
Katrina says:
This is a good point. There was one commenter here who had two sons with autism — one had his shots while the other didn’t.
If there are others who did NOT vax their child but yet the child still developed autism, it would be great to hear from them.
.-= Katrina´s last blog ..got a tissue? =-.
defendUSA says:
One of the things that used to tick me off as a Maternal Child Health educator was the women who would want the best for their children and then go against vaccines. It just didn’t make sense to me and still doesn’t. These are the women who breastfeed the kids til school-age,(!!!) and go the the doctor many more times than I could count and still they would not consider vaccinations. Unfortunately, two of these children were eventually diagnosed with autism and did not have any immunizations.
I swear off many things, but looking at the third world and what may soon happen in Haiti, I will continue to campaign for vaccinations.
Terri says:
I am pro vaccine, however my daughter who is almost 2 has been on a different vaccine schedule since she was 4 months old, she has yet to get the MMR which is usually given at 12-15 months. I’m hoping she is able to get that next month and she will be all caught up. We live in a rural area and at 4 months old we weren’t able to drive the hour up to her pediatricians office due to bad weather or something that seemed important at the time. We chose instead to take her to our local doctors office and have them give her vaccinations.. which turned out to be a horrible mistake. The doctor there had diagnosed her having pneumonia and had taken very good care of her just a few weeks prior so I felt good in taking her there. My husband and my mom took her in (I was at work) I sent her vaccine record with them and assumed the nurses would know what to give her. Wrong. They overdosed her on 2 different vaccines and gave her a 3rd that she didn’t need yet. She was very very sick. Her little body had just been through pneumonia, and then to have this happen and be told there’s nothing they can do, it just had to go out of her system. She’s fine now, smart, active, pretty healthy, although her immune system seems to be hit harder with the normal colds etc.. Sorry this is getting long, but my point is.. be watchful. Vaccines are a wonderful thing. My great grandmother lost 2 toddlers within days of each other due to a disease that is now unheard of with vaccines. Know what your child is supposed to receive, and when… ask to see the vials.. If they are being drawn up in another room, its okay to question what is being poked into your child. Be vigilant and never assume the nurse knows what she’s doing, she may not. My wonderful pediatrician shows me every vial before the nurse gives Kalie the injection, I sign off on each one after I’ve seen what it is, and we go over what shots she’s had, and which ones she needs together. That’s exactly how it should be. Know what’s going into your children, Mommas! It was an accident that could have and should have been prevented and I will never forgive myself for not being more careful.
Suzanne says:
I am pro-vaccination but at my own schedule. We follow a very slow schedule of vaccination shots, it is extra trips to the peditricians office but it is worth piece of mind for me.
My brother on the other hand is a cardiologist, he is very medically knowledgable and he does not believe in the vaccinations. He says if it ever comes to it he will vaccinate his kids in Canada because they are way safer.
Alison says:
In the words of my favorite web comic XKCD: Science. It works. There’s another word tacked on there at the end, buuut I don’t want anyone to think I’m targeting their opinion.
Vaccines have saved countless lives. Period.
And how many studies have contradicted the study the Lancet published? I’m glad the Lancet finally took responsibility and fully retracted it, but it will not convince those who have continually chosen to ignore the evidence.
xoxo
Rachael says:
My son has autism and he’s been fully vaccinated because we didn’t know there was a suggested connection. We were told to avoid flu vaccines because by his our neuro-psychologist because it still contains thimerosal. Our younger son is on a delayed schedule because of a bad reaction he had to vaccines unrelated to autism. But we still plan to have him fully vaccinated as well.
My stand on vaccines is this. I don’t believe it caused Gavin to be autistic. But, I know with my son he is very sensitive to things and they effect him neurologically. Soy makes him glaze over, and milk makes him stimmy. Cold Meds make him nutso (hyper and mean!). I know a large percentage of kids with autism are affected by things in there diet, as are normal children. So is it such a stretch that they might have reactions to chemicals in vaccines? I do support Jenny McCarthy in her crusade to make vaccines safer. It scares me all the crap they put in them and I think there has to be a way to make them better. There is a reason there is a fund setup for vaccine injury. I do NOT support her in blaming vaccines for autism though. I also hate that she makes parents with autistic children think they can cure it with a GF/CF diet. I think she gives them false hope and doesn’t tell them that her son was diagnosed with celiacs disease and probably never had autism to being with. I’ve had so many friends turn their autistic kids into guinea pigs because of what she says cures autism. She really makes me angry!!!
In the end you go with your gut. We all want to do what is best for our kids. I think its important to educate yourself and not get caught up in conspiracies and celebrities who talk out their asses
.-= Rachael´s last blog ..52 weeks of pictures: Week 3 =-.
Esther says:
Do any of the moms in this momversation have autistic kids? How it is a conversation when only one opinion is expressed?
Lindsay from Florida says:
My thoughts exactly.
Sarah R says:
Giving a 6 lb infant a single vaccine at birth is the equivalent of giving a 180-lb. man 30 vaccines at once.
I fully intended on giving my son all of the vaccines — really, I did. However, after his 2 month check up (where he was vaccinated with 7 different components, as was standard), he experienced what is known as the DTaP scream. Google it if you would like to read more about it. Basically, he screamed for 8 hours straight (not crying, but a high-pitched, eerie scream). During that time, he refused to nurse, which was very unusual for him, and would not make eye contact. I, of course, started researching and came across other mothers whose babies exhibited the same symptoms. Some of those babies never woke up the next morning after having the scream. I cried, I sobbed — I was so scared that I had ruined my son. From that day forward, I decided to forego any further vaccines.
It is every parent’s choice to vaccinate or not. I could just do without the feeling judged, because unless you have experienced a vaccine reaction, you have no idea what you would do in my shoes.
I do think that the answer would be to remove all adjuvants, harmful chemicals (both mercury and aluminum — aluminum is their choice right now for replacing mercury, but it may be even more toxic — please remember that there is a difference between injecting mercury into the muscle and ingesting mercury from fish — the body does not process them the same).
Another thing would be to separate the components so the shots could be spread out (they recently stopped making individual shots, so that’s no longer an option for many parents to choose). It is agreed by many in the medical community that the shots are only grouped together for convenience so that parents can get more taken care of in a single visit. I don’t agree with this practice and would gladly bring my baby in separate times if it meant her safety would be ensured.
Finally, please remember that in 1983, there were 10 (TEN) vaccines on the childhood immunization schedule. There are now 36. It has more than tripled and one has to wonder how many of these are “needed”. Chickenpox — when I was a child (I was born in 1980), it was just one of those things you got — yes, annoying, but you then had natural immunity. Please remember that the varicella vaccine is not a lifetime immunity. Hep. B — honestly, they are giving this at BIRTH when the main causes of transmission are via STDs and sharing needles. I refused this one for obvious reasons — I had the vaccine at age 18 so why does my son now “need” it at birth? The Prevnar vaccine is marketed as the “ear infection” vaccine when in fact, breastfeeding is the #1 thing a mother can do to prevent ear infections (my son is 2 1/2 and has never had an ear infection — I breastfed him for over 25 months).
I guess what I would like people to take from this is to do your own research. Don’t buy into the fear tactics on EITHER side. There is a lot of good information out there; you just have to look for it.
Amy says:
I breastfed for 6 months (pretty impressive for a working mom, imo). My daughter had ear infections once a month for a year until she receive tubes.
Sarah R says:
There are always going to be cases of ear infection amongst the entire childhood population. However, statistically speaking, a baby’s chances of ear infection are greatly reduced by breastfeeding. There are some excellent studies which prove this.
For what it’s worth, I am also a full-time working mother and can attest that I am proud of all breastfeeding mothers, no matter how long they do it for.
.-= Sarah R´s last blog ..I am really exhausted =-.
Jade says:
I have three children all vaccinated. My two older children were nursed for a full year. Both of them had terrible ear infections. Eventually leading to tubes and for my oldest mild hearing loss. Now my youngest due to MSPI was on formula for 11 months and not a single ear infection. Aside from MSPI she is undoubtedly the most healthy out of the three. She rarely has a cold.
Sarah R says:
Many times it comes down to genetics. I also know of someone whose son was breastfed and he had ear infections as well.
There are obviously exceptions to every rule. Statistically speaking, there is still a higher incidence of ear infection amongst formula fed babies because the formula itself can back up into the ear canal.
Another angle: there were very few cases of ear infection before the introduction of the MMR vaccine. This doctor says, “I see many children in my practice. Some are immunized and some are not, my own children are not. I see the difference between the immunized and the non-immunized. They’re much healthier and have less infections, colds, otitis media and tonsillitis. Dr. Michael Odent has written a letter in the JAMA (1994) where his figures show a five times higher rate of asthma in pertussis immunized children compared to non-immunized children. He is also quoted in the International Vaccination Newsletter (Sept. 1994): “Immunized children have more ear infections and spend more days in hospital.” Source: http://www.vaclib.org/links/ears.htm
Sarah R says:
I can speak for my own son who is very healthy, unvaccinated, and has never had an ear infection. He’s not a walking plague of infection as people like to portray the unvaccinated.
Many people you know today are unvaccinated — my mother-in-law is one of them. Vaccines were not routine when she was a little girl. She is in her 60s and one of the healthiest people I know (she never even catches the common things that go around in our family and hit everyone else: colds, stomach bugs, etc.). She is the “go-to” baby-sitter when one of the grandkids are sick and the mother has to go to work because Grandma never gets what the kids have.
Again, nobody seems to make a big deal about the age group of people 60 and above who are unvaccinated. They have what is called natural immunity — their own immune systems did as they were supposed to and their immune systems are stronger than someone who has achieved “immunity” through vaccines. Remember, it is not “immunity” when achieved via vaccines because none of those shots make a person immune. They all require boosters because of this.
Emily says:
First of all, Heather and Mike, Congrats on baby Annie! Thanks for all the adorable pictures.
An important point that has so far been overlooked in this discussion: Wakefield conducted his research poorly, and Lancet retracted his study. It doesn’t mean Wakefield was necessarily wrong – it just means that his methods were faulty. Perhaps he WAS wrong, but by retracting his study, Lancet is not necessarily claiming that there’s no connection between autism and the MMR vaccine. Lancet is simply saying that Wakefield did not prove a connection as previously thought.
It will be interesting to see if others attempt similar studies using better research methodology, and if they are successful.
.-= Emily´s last blog ..perhaps no direct vaccine link to autism, but still reason for concern =-.
Heather says:
That’s a very good point, and hopefully if there IS a connection, a well-conducted study will prove it.
Thanks!
Marie says:
Heather: there have been many, well conducted studies:
D’Souza et al, 2000. An Australian study of primary school children
Patja et al 2000, a long term study in Finland
Taylor et al 1999, a study of 498 children in England. None of these studies found any link between autism and vaccination.
Dales et al in 2001 examined the relationship between the increase in autism in California, and the MMR vaccine. Although a dramatic increase in the incidence of autism was reported, the percentage of children receiving the MMR vaccine remained the same.
Kaye et al 2001 investigated the incidence of autism between 1988 and 1993 and compared it with MMR immunization rates.
The Boston University School of Medicine looked at the evidence and concluded that the increase in diagnosed autism was primarily a reflection of changes in diagnostic practice – ie doctors are more able to recognise autism and therefore diagnose it. Also, Aspergers Syndrome was not included until the mid 80s and until recently often went undiagnosed.
Dr. Anshu Batra, a pediatrician and mother of two autistic boys, was featured on the Oprah show “The Faces of Autism.” She also pointed out that the medical community has ruled out vaccination being a cause of autism and that genetics was the more likely culprit.
Amanda M. says:
Thank you for posting this. Being that having babies isn’t on my “to do” list until 2012 (yes, it really is written out and posted on our bedroom wall) you’re the only mommy news I really read, so I probably wouldn’t’ve heard this anytime soon otherwise.
Yay for good news! Personally, I’d rather expose my child to autism than contagious diseases, but I won’t judge a parent who leans the other way.
P.S. Heather you are so cute! Your voice is soothing.
Kelsey says:
Okay, so here’s my side of this entire debate.
There are ten cousins on my father’s side of the family, plus myself and my 4 siblings. The eldest cousins were all vaccinated as babies, and were completely normal children by both medical and parental accounts prior to receiving the vaccine; and then they received the MMR vaccine. One of the girls crashed instantly, and now is living in a vegetative state. The other 4 who reacted (all boys), are all on various points of the autism spectrum. Of course, there were other children in between these cases, who were not affected at all.
Worried about what they’d witnessed, my mother and aunt both waited with their kids to give the MMR vaccine, until their children were 4 or 5 years old. My aunt’s eldest daughter, upon receiving the vaccine developed massive bruising around the vaccine site, and was covered in hives. My youngest brother (at age 5) received the vaccine, and within 24 hours was covered in hives, bruised around the vaccine site, and seizing. After treatment at the hospital my cousin, and my brother were both fine. And yes, myself, my other siblings, and remaining cousins did not react.
Obviously, there is some correlation, at least within my family, between the vaccine and autistic (among other) side effects (and yes, I know autism isn’t technically a ‘side effect’, however, in this example, I am classifying it as such). Therefore, when my own child is of the reccomended age to get the vaccine, I do firmly believe that I will wait, as my own mother did. Because whether studies agree or not, our experience has been that there is *something* which goes wrong when the vaccine is involved, and I will not take that chance with my child.
So yes :), to wrap up, while I am pro-vaccine, I do call into question the recommended ‘scheduling’ which the vaccines follow. And whether or not it has been the cause of autism for other people, the evidence points to the vaccine as the cause in my own family (among various other issues).
thatgirlblogs says:
I have 5 kids — I still squirm every time immunizations come up. They always end up getting them, but I was the last in town to do the swine flu vaccine. That one still freaks me.
.-= thatgirlblogs´s last blog ..You know how some people look just like their dogs? =-.
Toni Brockliss says:
I posted last night and woke up this morning (in Australia) and came back to read the comments.
I don’t know why, but this post has upset me.
The word autism is used so much now that I feel people don’t hear or listen to families who are affected by it anymore, they just hear a number.
Of any parent whose child has a disability I cannot tell you how alone it makes you feel. Nobody quite understands you or your child.
I have heard people say they would rather their child have measles then Autism, and then I have read people say they would rather their child have Autism then measles. Extremely hurtful on both sides, including the parents who choose not to vaccinate because they think their child will get Autism.
Comments like this, and I cannot speak for all Mothers, make me feel like I made a terrible decision. I was a bad mother and it insults me and my son because he is a beautiful child. Autism is not ugly or something you should fear. You deal with it but you don’t make it the only thing about your son or our family.
If I had a friend with cancer, I don’t say ‘that’s Karen and she’s got cancer’. I would say “that’s Karen. She wicked at crochet and bakes as good as Nigella’.
Back in day, the Dr who gave autism it’s name, said that it was caused by a ‘cold’ mother. Uncaring. The child retreated to a place they couldn’t come back from.
This is untrue, not founded, and speaking from myself – Elton couldn’t find a warmer mother.
Elton is my dear precious son. I love him so much and I love his outlook on life. I love that he points things out to me that I don’t see.
To me, he looks at the world in a unique and beautiful way and I encourage him and seek help so that he can cope in his life, but not for one second do I, or should I add any more guilt on the pile by suggesting his Autism came from a vaccine, and that I didn’t read the ingredients in the shot or that I know more then a doctor. Yes, I am his parent, but I am also not a scientist or have done years of research. I cannot google the vaccine and say I know more then they do.
When you child is vaccinated your child is also developing and going through a checklist of milestones. I can understand parents thinking it came from a vaccine because they need something to blame, but from day one my son was giving me signs that something was wrong and he hadn’t had a needle yet. I didn’t see them because he was my new baby and I wasn’t looking. Only now that I have read books and attended education seminars that I can look back and see what the signs were.
Elton was autistic in the womb. He came out like it. That is what I truly believe. He got his makeup and out he came. With Autism.
The numbers are high now because we receive care and intervention from early on. Think of your eccentric uncle or grandpa that had his quirks…..and then look at your child. It’s more then likely you got it from them.
Marie says:
Hi Toni! I’m in Australia too! Just looked at your blog, another Melbourne girl! Hello!
I have Aspergers Syndrome. My dad has it. My uncle has it. My cousin has it. I was never given MMR. Neither was my Dad or uncle.
I love the positive way you talk about your son and his autism. Autism is GIFT. It makes me feel sick to see all these posts about cure and prevention. In the Autistic community, the word cure is the same as genocide. I wish all mothers were like you Toni.
Toni Brockliss says:
Oh Marie, what a lovely thing to say.
I felt a little down about the whole discussion, but in the end nobody knows my son the way I do, the same for any parent and their child, and that is all that matters. You don’t win any battles on the internet.
I have Elton and I learn from him every single day. He is amazing.
I have never wondered why he got it because to me, it’s the past. I just want him to always be the same happy child he has always been. It’s my only goal.
It is so nice to know that you are from Melbourne. You sound gorgeous. x
.-= Toni Brockliss´s last blog ..12 days of L.O.V.E – 8 =-.
Marie says:
Hi Toni!
I saw the pics of Elton on your blog, what a cutie pie!!! I bet he is very smart and special, and while I’m sure his autism causes a few problems I’m equally sure that it brings many gifts and a new way of seeing the world. A “cure” might give you a nice normal child…but would he still be Elton? I bet his little quirks are what makes him unique. And he has a wonderful mum who embraces his uniqueness, which will only help him in life. All the best to you both!!
Jess says:
When I was 9 years old I caught the flu. I didn’t get better I ended up with a neurological disorder called Guillian Barre Syndrome. I almost died. I was in the hospital for 30 days and missed 6 months of school. Now this disease is in remission. Because of it I can never get a flu shot. I can’t get the tetanus, tb, meningitis, gardisal and any new shot they come up with, can’t get. It has the potential of sending the guillian barre back through my system, this time killing me for sure. (If it gets to your lungs you need to be on a ventilator and even then you have a hard time surviving.)
I got all my immunizations. and this guillian barre came out because I CAUGHT the flu, not because of any shots. I don’t think we can ever protect our children from everything. Kids eat dirt, taste the paste in kindergarten, share chapstick and lipgloss. Share water bottles at sports games. We all can’t live in a plastic bubble.
I will forever have the guillian barre and will have to be careful for the rest of my life because I don’t know what can set it off. If I catch the flu again and if it’s bad enough, I end up back in the hospital learning to walk again. I’m pro vaccine as well. But I respect the con-vaccine people because it’s their decision. I know when I have my kids they will be vaccinated and I will be happy with my decision no matter the outcome.
LD says:
For me it comes down to this– *even* if there was a connection, I’d rather have an autistic child than a dead one. Autism doesn’t kill- German Measles, Polio, Rubella—these things kill.
.-= LD´s last blog ..Best Album of 2009 =-.
Sarah R says:
It is more than just autism. Some people do not like exposing their kids to harsh preservatives. Many people do not want to chance giving their child an autoimmune disease when the chances of getting or having complications from one of the diseases vaccinated for is so rare.
PUBLIC SANITATION, not vaccination, has made the biggest difference in terms of survival from diseases. It’s only because vaccination is all we know now that people think the diseases are so scary. Sure, some people do suffer from them, but that doesn’t mean it’s a death sentence. The chances are much higher that my family will get in a car accident, but that doesn’t stop us from going out in our car.
You pick your battles.
Less than 5% of vaccine reactions are actually reported, so that means the chances of something happening as the result of a vaccine are actually much higher.
In conclusion, please remember, it’s not just autism that scares people away from vaccines. You try listening to your 8 week old baby scream for 8 hours straight after his shots, and know in your heart that something is wrong, and then you tell me you would continue with future vaccines. It’s just not worth it for me, not when the statistics show that children who react are more likely to react in the future, and in a more severe way.
Also, I won’t trust the same people who push the H1N1 vaccine, when the chances of dying from it are so low (it is just above leprosy in terms of statistics), yet the media plays it out as though it’s an automatic death sentence). As a pregnant woman, I refused the vaccine because I read stories of women having 2nd and 3rd trimester losses shortly after the vaccine. That’s not worth it to me.
Joy says:
Have you not seen the heartbreaking stories of autistic children who wander away from home and die of exposure or drown because they are drawn to water? Or have a siezure and die?
From:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11814268
“The objective of this study was to determine which causes of death are more frequent in persons with autism, and by how much, compared with the general population. Subjects were 13,111 ambulatory Californians with autism, followed between 1983 and 1997. The units of study were person-years, each linked to the subject’s age, sex, and cause of death (if any) for the specific year. Observed numbers of cause-specific deaths were compared with numbers expected according to general population mortality rates. Standardized mortality rates (SMRs) were computed for each mental retardation level. Elevated death rates were observed for several causes, including seizures and accidents such as suffocation and drowning; elevated mortality due to respiratory disease was observed among persons with severe mental retardation. Overall, excess mortality was especially marked for persons with severe mental retardation, but life expectancy is reduced even for persons who are fully ambulatory and who have only mild mental retardation.”
.-= Joy´s last blog ..Actually an uneventful Doctors appt. =-.
Amy says:
LD: The vaccinations themselves can kill. Vaccine reactions are much more common than the diseases they are trying to protect against.
I would take my chances with measles any day over the type of reaction my daughter had to a DTaP vaccine.
Emily says:
Rubella (aka. German measles) is a mild disease and doesn’t kill you; it does, however, cause major birth defects in the fetus if caught by a pregnant woman in her first trimester. Polio can paralyze an/or kill, but it’s been eradicated in the US, along with Diptheria. Pertussis is still around, and it can be very problematic, as some previous commenters have mentioned.
From that perspective, chicken pox doesn’t kill you either, and neither does measles or mumps, unless you have some underlying condition going on. Most of our parents had measles as children, and most of us had chicken pox.
It becomes a question of: How many diseases are you actually going to be vaccinated for? And which devil do you want to dance with: the devil of vaccine reactions, or the devil of getting the vaccine-preventable disease? It’s a tough call, that’s for sure.
Personally, rather than focusing on milder diseases, I’d like to see vaccine companies focus their research and production efforts on diseases that are still killing people worldwide, such as tuberculosis and malaria. My health-conscious friend lived in Russia for a number of years, and she said that while there IS a TB vaccine, it’s no good. How about the vaccine manufacturers focusing on doing good worldwide, and eradicating some of those kinds of diseases, just like we eradicated Polio in the USA?
.-= Emily´s last blog ..perhaps no direct vaccine link to autism, but still reason for concern =-.
Sarah R says:
Exactly. What next? Do we just continue to add to the list of “must have” vaccines? Do we just keep saying, “how high?” when the medical community asks us to jump?
Vaccines are not 100% effective and people forget that. There have been studies done which show that the flu vaccine is completely ineffective in children. Yet, they continue to recommend it. Does that not raise a red flag? Who are we protecting here, the pharmaceutical companies (multi-billion dollar companies) or our precious children?
For those of you not aware, the WHO changed the definition of “Pandemic” last spring so that the H1N1 outbreak, which under the old definition would not be called a pandemic, could now be called a pandemic (and we all know how that went down — mass panic ensued).
Lexi says:
How, though, has polio been eradicated in the US? Why are these diseases so few-and-far-between?
You already know what I’m gonna’ say….
.-= Lexi´s last blog ..GAH. =-.
Kristi F says:
My son has mild Asperger’s syndrome. He had all of his vaccines at the suggested times. We did not actually notice that his was “different” until he started kindergarten and then I belive the stress of such a chaotic environment caused him to have issues. We didn’t really think he was anything but a neurotypical child until he was in 4th or 5th grade, but the psychologist we took him to said he did not have an autistic spectrum disorder. The summer before he entered his sophomore year in high school my son asked me to find him some help for his “social issues.” I took him to a different clinic where he was tested again and ultimately determined to be mildly Asperger’s and started in a social group and individual sessions every other week and now, 2 years later, our son is so much more like other kids his age. He will always have social limitations, but he is so much better now with the help of people who truly understand autistic spectrum disorders. My husband, we now realize, also exhibits some mild Asperger’s tendencies so we pretty much believe this to be a genetic condition. I have talked to people in the past who believe their children “got” autism from vaccines; I just could never go along with that and now apparently neither can medical science.
Dina says:
Has anyone visited NatalieNortonphoto.com? Her baby died last month of pertussis.
AshleyT. says:
So, SO disgusted with the vaccine debate!!! People can be so ugly, so judgmental. I wish we could all just make whatever decision we believe is best for our children, and not discuss it at all. So much character assassination, everyone tossing around information that may or may not be correct….just so sick of it. I’m not even going to bother saying whether I’m pro-vaccine or not. I don’t think it’s necessary. “Discussions” like these aren’t really discussions at all. It’s like discussing religion and politics; it all just turns into one big argument! YUCK. This whole post just made me feel totally blah.
NolanMommy says:
Yes, the research has shown for a long time now that there is no link between vaccines and autism. But what about all the other things children suffer from now that were much lower in the past (ADHD, asthma, seizure disorders, etc.). I am pro-vaccine, but not on the recommended schedule. Why is it necessary to give a newborn child a vaccine for Hepatitis B when it is a disease passed through intravenous drug use and unprotected sexual contact? I just agree with the too much too soon philosophy. I prefer to space them out.
Emily says:
I agree. Kids deal with a lot more serious health issues now than they did a generation ago. Why is that? And I also think we give kids too many shots too soon. I find it interesting that the same amount of shot is given to a small child as it would be to a larger child as it would be to an adult. The vaccine dose is not adjusted based on a child’s weight; I find that … a bit disturbing. A dose of tylenol is based on a child’s weight, and that’s much milder medicine. Hmm.
I truly don’t know if autism and the other health issues mentioned are related to vaccines or not, but what I don’t want is for researchers (and doctors) to get their undies in such a bundle that they become absolutely convinced that it couldn’t possibly be vaccines, and so they ignore the possibily entirely. Maybe vaccines aren’t the problem, but let’s at least give it – and every other possibility, too – a fair and honest examination.
And, like I mentioned earlier, all the Lancet did was say that Wakefield’s research was lousy. Lancet did not say “Vaccines and Autism Are Not Connected.” Yet, for some reason, many people are reacting as if that IS what Lancet said.
(I’m also with you on not giving Hepatitis B shots to newborns. Sheesh – how crazy is that? That’s a series of shots that can easily be given later in life.)
.-= Emily´s last blog ..perhaps no direct vaccine link to autism, but still reason for concern =-.
Sarah R says:
Excellent point, Emily. Vaccines are not weight-based but medications are. My son, who was 6 lbs at birth (and only 6 days early, mind you) probably weighed less at his 2 month checkup than other babies at the same age. Did the doctor still recommend 7 different vaccines? Yes, she did. I will never know if weight was a contributing factor, but it does make me wonder.
Thank goodness he is fine — but I took the whole situation as a warning and my mama instinct said that this wasn’t right.
Katrina says:
I think Sarah R. has some valid points. And if my baby had a reaction like hers did, you can bet I would not continue with vaccinations, either.
.-= Katrina´s last blog ..got a tissue? =-.
Sarah R says:
Thank you, Katrina. Your words mean a lot to me and I appreciate the support.
When I learned that his response (DTaP scream) was also referred to as “cry encephalitis”, a swelling of the brain, I realized that “side effects” of vaccines can be major, and not just pain at the injection site or minor fever. I honestly never knew this stuff before I went through it and just trusted everything the doctor recommended. Now I question as I realize I am the only advocate my son and soon-to-arrive daughter have.
liz says:
I usually would not comment on something like this because when it comes to a child i truly believe that when i comes to decision making… it is the parents choice, and the parents alone!!
i have no right to judge someones parental decisions, and i would hope the same respect be given to myself.
i however think that this darn debate over ~should i give my children the vaccination or not~ has gotten old! do the research and make your own decision for what you feel is right for your child!!
on the other hand as an aunt of an autistic 5 year old boy… SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE!! 1 in 100 or 1 in 150 is just to much! there is something going on….whatever that something is… to have this happen. in my own, or my parents generations you rarely heard of an autistic child.
so everyone should all stop fighting over a decision that is for you as a parent to make, and all do something to help these children, parents, siblings, and familys that are effected!!!
if blogs, media, government, parents, doctors etc, would focus on a cure/treatment/cause… their time would be better spent, rather then them wasting their time in arguement!
Sarah R says:
We definitely need research — on all aspects.
What do I do? My family leads an organic, natural lifestyle. This means that we avoid unnecessary, harmful, everyday chemicals such as BPA (thank goodness it’s on it’s way to being banned from all baby products), parabens (found in many, many healthcare products from your makeup to your shampoo to your toothpaste to your Baby Magic lotion), phthalates (found in many cosmetics and toys), PBDEs (found in flame retardants — the biggest one here is mattresses, those soft, fuzzy baby and children’s pajamas, and many other things), and PVC (found in children’s toys, plastic shower curtain liners, green garden hoses, miniblinds, etc.).
If you can buy green products (I tell people to start with their children’s pajamas — buy form-fitting, not flame resistant), you are at least helping to eliminate that from the equation.
Watch what you eat. GMOs are a scary thing — Genetically Modified Organisms are mainly found in the following crops: corn, canola, and soybean. The corn is not the sweet corn we eat, but the dent corn which is fed to cattle and other animals. GMO crops have their own pesticide built in so that it can withstand mass sprayings of Roundup. This is why I have no problem buying organic meat and making sure certain products (corn chips are one) are organic. If it’s organic, you can ensure it doesn’t contain any GMOs.
There are many things that could be contributing to the rising rates of autism. Vaccines haven’t been ruled out yet, and it does bother me that they simply switched the mercury from the MMR vax to aluminum, an even more poisonous compund. The studies done were also flawed because in the control group, the components were not removed from the vaccine. This is not a true study!
Katie says:
I think conspiracy has become part of the general mistrust we all have now…. Don’t trust the government, don’t trust the media, don’t trust pharmaceutical companies, don’t trust the food producers, don’t trust the scientists, don’t trust the education system, don’t trust religion, don’t trust manufacturers… I could go on and on. Fear fear fear. Why are we so afraid?
Angie says:
My doctor will not allow non-vaccinated patients into his practice. Why? 1) He believes that much in vaccines, and how it safeguards overall public health. 2) He has a son with heart issues and refuses to risk carrying home something harmful that could endanger his life. He says he has yet to have a parent withdraw.
And, Heather, I feel bad that there are readers who feel compelled to judge you over decisions you’ve made regarding. Annie. Parenting is hard enough as it is, and I wish people could just expend the same energy to be supportive, instead of combative.
Sarah R says:
That’s fine, but many doctors HAVE to push their patients to be vaccinated. Doctors are rated on many things, and one of the categories is the percentage of vaccinated patients. I don’t think you will come across too many doctors who will openly say that vaccines should be spread out if given. That would result in more visits to the office and more staff time. $$$ You will also not come across a doctor who will say “you don’t need this vaccine”. They have to preach what they are told to practice and cannot think alternatively.
Amy says:
My decision to not vaccinate my children has nothing to do with autism. It has to do with a severe, almost deadly reaction. Vaccine reactions do happen. Children can die from the vaccines. I never thought it would happen to my child… but it did. It’s not something I’m willing to risk again.
Emily says:
I’m so sorry for your loss.
.-= Emily´s last blog ..perhaps no direct vaccine link to autism, but still reason for concern =-.
Meg...CT says:
So very sorry for your loss…that is exactly what I said in a previous post. Life experiences shape who you are and the decsions you make.
Sarah R says:
I am so sorry, Amy.
Jenn says:
Amy, so very, very sorry.
Hugs.
.-= Jenn´s last blog ..Trials and Tribulations =-.
Marie says:
Amy didn’t say her son died, she said he had an almost deadly reaction. Maybe Amy can clarify but I take that to mean he’s still alive so I think the “so sorry for your loss” comments are misplaced. However, I am sorry to hear of your son’s bad reaction and hope he is well now.
There are absolutely people who have had bad reactions to vaccines, which is a separate issue. Often they are caused by allergies to ingredients in the vaccine. That doesn’t mean vaccines are bad, it means certain people may not be able to have them. Which is exactly why we vaccinate, to protect those children who can’t have them.
Adrianne says:
It’s just a shame that those children have to have such a bad reaction before we know that they can’t handle vaccines. There should be a way to test for that sort of thing beforehand….and that’s what I think we should be focusing on.
Michelle W says:
I do think as parents we should be able to make informed choices without fearing backlash or criticism from other parents on opposing sides. That said topics like this are usually going to be bring out our passionate sides. I felt firm and confident in my decision to not circumcise and to vaccinate. If I was to express all my reasons for why I came to this decision it may cause parents on the “opposing” side to feel criticized for their choices but that wouldn’t be my intention.
Annie says:
As a high risk OB nurse, Lactation Initiator, and former NICU nurse I am in shock that someone would compare bottle feeding for one week due to hyperbilirubinemia,to vaccinating children. I breast fed one of my children and bottle fed the other. There are generations of kids who were bottle fed…yes they survived being bottle fed. I have to say that I think Jenny McCarthy is a funny lady. I enjoyed reading Belly Laughs while I was pregnant. During my second pregnancy I started reading Louder Than Words and had to stop b/c I began to question myself as a parent. I am a nurse and already had one child I had vaccinated, and I never questioned my decision. That book just planted a fear without any real research or proof. So yes, I think anti-vaccination groups DO make most people afraid and that’s how they get people on their bandwagon. Ultimately, it IS every parent’s decision whether or not to vaccinate. It’s not for me to judge. The important question is CAN YOU LIVE WITH YOUR DECISION if your child dies from something that was preventable? I myself would rather live with I child with Autism.
Annie says:
*a child with Autism not I child with Autism:)
Laura Crain says:
I am neither pro vaccine or anti vaccine. I am a nurse and was vigilant about being on time vaccinating my first child. When he was 15 months old, he received 3 shots (and a total of 7 vaccines) at the same doctor’s visit. Within days, he had changed dramatically. He was screaming all the time and lost the few words he had. I didn’t know then what was going on. He was diagnosed with autism a few months before his 3rd birthday.
Our second child has not received his MMR (he is 4). This was a decision I agonized over, because I do know the risks. We will vaccinate him before he starts school.
He is at a higher risk because he is male and because his sibling has autism. I would hate for him to develop measles or rubella, and yes, I would feel really, really guilty if that happened. Yes, I realize that I am putting others at risk.
For those of you who don’t live with autism, let me just tell you a little about my life with the disorder. My beautiful, beautiful boy, who used to smile and hug me, bangs his head into walls and hits himself until he is black and blue. He is almost 6 and is not potty trained. He takes his diaper off and smears feces on the walls. He breaks everything he gets his hands on. He hits his brother and the other kids in his CDC class. We have spent approx $25,000 out of pocket on neurologists, ABA therapy, psychologists, etc.
I do not tell others not to vaccinate because I do not know that it caused my son’s autism and I certainly do not know it will cause anyone elses child to develop it. But, please don’t judge those of us too harshly who are desperately trying to do the right thing with our autistic children and their siblings. It is a really, really difficult life for many of us.
Joy says:
Unless you’ve got a child with regressive autism, unless you’;ve lived with the nightmare of watching your kid slip away from you, don’t judge those of us who’d rather take our chances w/the disease.
.-= Joy´s last blog ..Actually an uneventful Doctors appt. =-.
Karen says:
My son has Autsim and when my daughter was born I didnt hesitate to get her vaccinated. Why? Well my son has autism because I have autism, my mother has autism and my grandfather had autism. We’re very lucky and it’s high functioning but we all have it. We live with it, we get on with life.
However, since the big debate opened over here (UK) the number of (usually middle class) parents who have decided not to get the triple vaccine or not to immunise at all has gone through the roof. This is despite almost instant research available to refute the claims and lots of evidence showing that autism is not caused by the MMR jab.
Since the ‘debate’ opened a large number of children have not been immunised and a large number of children have had mumps, measles and rubella. In this country these are notifiable diseases and by law the local authority have to be informed. This means that there is data to support the rise in M,M & R. Unfortunately this has also resulted in an increase in deaths.
No child should have to die of preventable diseases, as everyone who reads this website knows. No parents should have to go through that. No newspaper should headline research that can not be supported with more than one researchers evidence.
It’s 12 years now since it started here, the General Medical Council have held hearings that discredit all his reasearch and still people questions the benefit of giving jabs.
Autism is probably a genetic problem, a blip in God’s knitting pattern. As parents we can do all we can to protect them whilst we grow them and deliver them and bring them up but, ultimately we cant help the way the ingredients go together. And that begins a whole other argument!
Ck says:
Both of my sons are autistic. Both received their vaccines on time. Their younger sister (neuro-typical) has also received her vaccines on schedule. I wholeheartedly, unabashedly, vehemently, support vaccines. Autism is not a disease, it cannot be cured. For people to claim that it can be cured, that it can go away is a dis-service to those children and families dealing with autism spectrum disorders. Instead of focusing on the “why?” and the “how?” we need to focus on helping these children, to teach them, to the best of our abilities, how to function in a non-autistic world. Wasting energy looking for someone or something to blame helps no one.
wendy thomas says:
We are one of those families who will never get another vaccination. Not even flu shots will make their way into our household.
I chose to wait until my son was in middle school before I got him his Hep B vaccine. It is a series of 3 shots. He reacted to the first shot, no one made the connection. We got him the second shot. He almost died. Thank God we finally made the connection and the 3rd and final shot was withheld.
We’re talking about a 14 year old strong, until then healthy kid who almost died from a reaction to a vaccine. If we had given him the shots as an infant (as they had wanted us to) he would not have survived.
Granted we are in the minority with a reaction but knowing now what I know about vaccines, I would never have let my kids have any of them.
.-= wendy thomas´s last blog ..A little discussion on Cheap vs. Thrifty =-.
Katie C. says:
I am definitely pro-vaccine and I get absolutely ENRAGED by parents who don’t vaccinate, because they make other children susceptible to diseases – childen who aren’t yet old enough for a vaccine or who have compromised immune systems. To me, if you don’t want your kid vaccinated, don’t expect to have your kid in school! Don’t expect them to be able to partake in activities with other kids. It isn’t fair to expose other children to deadly diseases because some hipster parent wants to go against the flow and not vaccinate. I have respect for EVERY parent, and I understand why people make the decisions they do for whatever reason they do – but DON’T expose the rest of the world to the deadly diseases out there!
Great job, Heather, on the Momversation! And yay for you for calling out Jenny McCarthy for saying such a disgusting thing!
Sarah R says:
If your kids are vaccinated and their vaccines worked, then they aren’t at any risk from the unvaccinated.
If your child hasn’t experienced a reaction from a vaccine, then you have never been down that path and do not know how you would feel if you did. I used to be like you, too (pro-vaccine).
Katie C. says:
With all due respect, Sarah, just because I am pro-vaccine doesn’t mean my children are not susceptible to disease. When you have an infant, they are COMPLETELY at risk because they cannot get vaccinated right away. Babies don’t get pertussis vaccines until about a month or so – if they are around children who haven’t been vaccinated – they can contract the deadly disease and die. So yes, my stepson has been vaccinated against pretty much everything (except swine flu – that one is the only one I had questions about) and when I have a baby I will vaccinate him or her, too. But there are people – whether they are infants or just those with compromised immune systems – that can get sick from these deadly diseases because others choose not to vaccinate! For that matter, there are adults out there who need to have pertussis boosters because the pertussis vaccine wanes after 10 or 12 years. So it isn’t just kids that need vaccines – adults need boosters, too – to protect their infants from deadly diseases.
I respect that you had a very bad thing happen and I can understand why you may choose your decision – but I think people who don’t vaccinate their kids need to be prepared for their kids to not be able to partake in regular activities. Of course in a situation such as yours, it is tough because your child’s body cannot accept some, if not all, vaccines. So I do empathize with your situation. I don’t know what I would do if my baby had a severe reaction to a vaccine.
I know there are extenuating circumstances… but I think overall, people need to vaccinate. Things like polio and measles killed many children years ago – and it was amazing that we have been blessed with ways to prevent these diseases. It just seems foolish to say ALL vaccines are deadly. (Not calling you foolish, of course).
Anyway, I understand and respect your opinion – I just feel strongly about this as I have heard of too many sad stories of babies dying needlessly.
Katie C. says:
I’d also like to add that I think it is completely appropriate for people to do “delayed” vaccine schedules. I do think it is an awful lot for a baby to go through to get like 10 shots in one day. If it is possible, I think it is completely okay to spread out the vaccines. I remember seeing my niece come down with high fevers after her vaccines because she would get like 8 in one day. Seems like a lot for even an adult to contend with!
Sarah R says:
I respect your opinion as well. The only wild card is when your child has a reaction, what do you do?
An exclusively breastfed baby is not unprotected those first two months before receiving a vaccine. In fact, a breastfed baby will go from havining no immune system at birth to having a complete immune system within the first 48 hours, all thanks to the colostrum.
Many babies die needlssly from vaccines, too. Also, many cases of SIDS occur within days of the baby having vaccines. Swelling of the brain due to a vaccine can often go unnoticed, sadly.
Sarah R says:
Here is a good link which shows that it is modern medicine which resulted in lower incidences of death from all diseases, as many of these declines happened well before the introduction of vaccines. http://www.heilkunst.com/drugs10.html
Katie C. says:
Wow, I’d never heard of SIDS being attributed to vaccines. Which is why I am a strong believer in maybe spacing those vaccines out. But to not give them at all is scarier than some of the repercussions. I do feel for you, though, and it is terrible that your child had a reaction… Is your child okay now? Have you decided to not give any more vaccines?
Jenn says:
I agree with Sarah. If you have vaccinated your child, than interaction with an un-vaccinated child would be at no risk to your child.
.-= Jenn´s last blog ..Trials and Tribulations =-.
Eric says:
Absolutely untrue. Vaccines are not 100% foolproof. Vaccines can fail to develop an autoimmune reaction in a small amount of patients.
joy says:
but that also means that your vaxed child could be a risk to other vaxed kids… unless immune titers are pulled you simply will not know if the vaccines actually took for your kid. you can assume, but you won’t know for sure.
.-= joy´s last blog ..Late update on Dominic’s party and musings =-.
Rachael says:
I have not read all of the comments so sorry if this was already published.
When deciding what was best for our children, we read The Vaccine Book by Dr. Sears. It is very straightfoward and unbiased. It gives just facts and then he also gives his opionions on which are necessary and which aren’t. But his writing is not pushy AT ALL. There is also a delayed vaccine schedule and a selective vaccine schedule in his book as well. We use the delayed.
Congrats on your beautiful Annie and good luck with whatever you decide.
Terri says:
That is a wonderful book! We read it after our vaccine “accident” that I wrote about earlier.. and it helped us to make a plan for spreading hers out. Our pediatrician is pro vaccine but she did tell us after a child has a reaction once, they are more prone to having another one, and it could be more serious so we needed to do things a little different. I will be relieved when she has the MMR hopefully next month, I’m scared of her catching measles, but I’m scared of her getting a reaction too… we are taking precautions. Her doctor appointment is in the morning and we will stay in the city for awhile afterwards… also my husband is taking off work to stay home with her and watch.. hopefully everything will go fine. It’s just scary either way. We fly internationally alot to visit family so having her catch measles overseas and possibly bring it back is a real concern, I dont feel like not giving her MMR is an option for us.
Simply Jenn says:
As a scientist and a mom, I have spent years calmly and rationally explaining that while, yes, you totally have the right as a parent to not vaccinate your child, there are global consequences to your decision. For my youngest son, who is fully vaccinated, these vaccinations will not help him when his immune system shuts down on a monthly basis (he has cyclic neutropenia where his disease fighting white blood cells become non-existent). While I understand the fear that can come with vaccinating your child, I see it from a different viewpoint. First, If my son comes in contact with a child who has a vaccinatable disease, he literally could have severe to life-threatening consequences. Second, there have been many studies showing no link between vaccination and autism but those were never widely covered in the media.
And finally, Heather I am terribly sorry this is my first comment on your blog- I never felt I had anything to say that hadn’t already been said. I have, however been reading for over a year. Pleae forgive me, but if our story can help one person with their decision to vaccinate that is one less person an immune compromised child will contact these diseases from.
.-= Simply Jenn´s last blog ..A whole new chapter in my life, and one I’m not sure I’m ready to read =-.
Eric says:
Jenn, very well said. This is a public health issue. And while I don’t believe the government should go door-to-door with vaccines, I firmly believe that all schools and daycares should require their students to follow the AAP-recommended vaccination schedule.
A decline in the number of vaccinated children puts ALL of our kids at risk.
daysgoby says:
Am completely missing the video’s point because I’m SO ENTRANCED with the dead man’s head lying behind you.
Late pizza guy?
.-= daysgoby´s last blog ..the mist in the trees =-.
Sarah says:
Still waiting to hear anecdotes from parents with autistic, non-vaccinated kids…….
Sarah R says:
Autism is non-existent in the Amish community.
.-= Sarah R´s last blog ..I am really exhausted =-.
Katie C. says:
I would like to see the data on that. I grew up in Central Pennsylvania and I knew MANY an Amish family – and I can think of one or two children in particular that were Amish that had autistic tendencies. Could have something to do with some of the subtle in-breeding that goes on in Amish life, but who knows. Anyways, to say that it is non-existent is something that needs to be backed up with some medical data. For one, do you really think Amish people are going to be running to a doctor if their kid displays behavior on the spectrum? No. They do use hospitals and doctors when absolutely needed, but they don’t go running in every time their kid has a sniffle or a sneeze or a quirky behavior. So even if there aren’t a lot of cases documented, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen.
Also, you can’t imagine how scary it is to have a baby living in Central Pennsylvania – so many of my friends refuse to take their infants out of the house for the first month because the baby’s immune system is not developed and they haven’t been immunized yet – and if you go to Wal-Mart or any public place and encounter an Amish kid, the chances that your baby will contract a disease are high.
Do you know how many Amish kids die of whooping cough? Probably more than the general population. Although I am sure that number has even gone down over the years because everyone ELSE’S kids are vaccinated. Over time, though, Amish kids and other American kids who aren’t vaccinated are going to start getting TERRIBLY ILL and could even die if they continue to not get vaccinated. It just takes one kid to infect others, and if more and more people start jumping on this anti-vaccine bandwagon, we will have a lot of needless deaths.
Katie C. says:
Okay, I did find some studies that show that in a community of 15,000 Amish, only 1 has autism… and that is way lower than the regular population. But there are so many other factors to put into consideration. Like the regular population eats a lot of food with chemicals, or the fact that the Amish community has a lot of the same gene pool and therefore might not have a gene responsible for autism. Who knows WHAT causes autism? But the fact that the Amish had a lower number of cases, doesn’t mean that is because they don’t vaccinate. Interesting topic, though – and one I would like to research more.
Katie C. says:
One more thing – I know of two Amish families in particular who DO vaccinate. After reading up on this topic today, I see that there are MANY Amish who do adhere to vaccination schedules nowadays.
Marie says:
Sarah R you are FULL of misinformation. A study was done that found autism rates are the same in Amish communities.
Adrianne says:
Sarah,
Of course there are unvaccinated children with autism, so hearing from those mothers wouldn’t change much. I don’t think many (if anybody) would argue that vaccines are the SOLE cause of autism. Most probably think that there is something underlying in the child, and the vaccine triggered that something causing the autism to surface. Maybe some children don’t need that “trigger” or something else does it. We know that there are plenty of unvaccinated children with autism out there, but clearly that is not enough (for a lot of people) to completely eliminate vaccines from the debate.
Sarah says:
No, I wouldn’t say *clearly* because there’s nothing clear about this issue. The simple phenomenon of people freaking out and desperately needing something to blame can account for why we have so many people vocal about their steadfast insistence that vax caused their kids’ autism.
Jen says:
I am an RN who works exclusively in the Amish culture in Holmes county, Ohio. I have taken health histories on hundreds of adults over 40. The Amish population cannot possibly be considered accurate in any statistics when dealing with psychological/neuro issues simply because they were never reported. These issues were kept closely monitored in the community and never, ever discussed with “outsiders”. The data that will become available in the next two years will offer a lot more insight into amish/autism.
Jen says:
*Amish adult histories
Jenn says:
Oh my what a hot topic and one I have waited to post on myself.
I have a 3 1/2 year old boy who is high functioning Autistic. At 11 months old, I knew there was something ‘off’ about him and begun my quest of knowledge. I read everything I possibly could to try and make the best decision for my son. And here is what I what read and believed to be true.
First, I don’t believe that all vaccines are bad. I do believe that some vaccines are needed and I also believe that some are just so that a child does not have to do go through the side effects of a non-life threatning illness.
My son and his twin sister were vaccinated with all the recommended shots until we go to the MMR. I chose to delay it because I thought it was what was best for Jake.
I do believe that we do not need to give so many shots at once and believe that an infant’s poor little immune system cannot handle sooo many vaccines at once. So I choose to split mine up and NEVER give two live vaccines at once. I too follow the Dr. Sears Alternative scheduled and believe it is right for my family. I follow the same scheduled for my 18month old daughter.
These are my beliefs and mine alone and would expect that people would respect that I am only doing what I believe is right for my chidlren as I respect those of you vaccinating your children on the schedule you believe to be right for your own.
We are all just parents trying to do what the best for our babies.
.-= Jenn´s last blog ..Trials and Tribulations =-.
wendy thomas says:
I’ll tell you none of my daughters will ever EVER get a gardasil vaccine. My daughter’s reproductive health is far too important for me to put a virtually untested poison directed specifically at their reporductive tissue into their bodies.
I have heard too many stories of young girls’ systems being overwhelmed by that one resutling in neurological damage. In my son’s health class a show of hands (asked by the teacher) showed that several girls just in his class alone had reactions.
And now they are starting to reccommend that one for young boys.
When my girls become sexually active adults if they would like the vaccine that is their decision but no young daughter of mine will receive that shot under my watch.
AS long as Big -pharms are making so much money from these (often times rushed shots – H1N1 case in point) shots, there is and should always going to be cause for concern.
.-= wendy thomas´s last blog ..A little discussion on Cheap vs. Thrifty =-.
Eric says:
OK. But consider this — you say “when my girls become sexually active adults….”
First of all, many teens don’t wait until adulthood to have sex!
Secondly, are you 100% sure that you will KNOW when your girls are sexually active? Are you sure they will tell you?
I sure didn’t tell my parents. And I don’t believe my daughter would necessarily tell me, either.
I know and have worked with two of the university researchers involved in the development of Gardasil, they are a husband-and-wife team who have done HPV research for three decades. I have absolutely no doubt that their research is pure and unmotivated by a desire for profit. I know the passion they have for fighting these diseases.
My daughter will get the vaccine at 12, period, no questions asked. It’s a no-brainer for me.
angeline says:
I am pro vaccine but I am also a teacher for children with autism (ages 3-5) my views on the subject are divided having studied autism in depth and working with children broad in the spectrum. From my experience some children I have had in my classroom were born “different” there parents realizing developmental delays as early as 9 months old, later they were diagnosed with autism. Other cases the children were “normal” home videos indicating the children had developed language, motor skills, social skills, etc,, a week after receiving the vaccination that child shut down. ( these are cases I have dealt with first hand fyi) It may have been due to the vaccine or it may have not been ? No one is sure.
One of my students this school year was diagnosed with autism at the age of 14 months, according to his parents and home video the child was alert, responsive, verbal, active, after receiving the vaccine he shut down. Both parents are neurologist (more pro vaccine then them you don’t get) but sadly they are now in doubt after the level of aluminum in there child came back sky high….
No doubt every parent wants nothing more then a healthy child! But know a child with autism can persevere with the proper therapies and attention miles stone can be reached.
Having a deadly viral disease can not compare. IMO. Here in Miami, Fl you can request the MMR in 3 different shots instead of all 3 al once. Some parents these days opt for that option. FYI.
Katrina says:
The DPT shot is a strange one. I would like to get the “P” part of it (whooping cough) but they don’t have that one in a single isolated shot. If you want protection from whooping cough, you need to get it in the DPT shot, which means you need the “T” tetanus, and the “D” diptheria, and full protection from that would be 5 shots, which means 15 doses, 10 of which is something I don’t want in my child’s systom in the first place. The last time I checked, they don’t offer the pertusis (whooping cough) vaccine in a single shot. It’s only with the combination DTP shot. I have to wonder why the pharm companies do this. Other immunizations are offered separately, but not this one.
.-= Katrina´s last blog ..got a tissue? =-.
angeline says:
I am pro vaccine but I am also a teacher for children with autism (ages 3-5) my views on the subject are divided having studied autism in depth and working with children broad in the spectrum. From my experience some children I have had in my classroom were born “different” there parents realizing developmental delays as early as 9 months old, later they were diagnosed with autism. Other cases the children were “normal” home videos indicating the children had developed language, motor skills, social skills, etc,, a week after receiving the vaccination that child shut down. ( these are cases I have dealt with first hand fyi) It may have been due to the vaccine or it may have not been ? No one is sure.
One of my students this school year was diagnosed with autism at the age of 14 months, according to his parents and home video the child was alert, responsive, verbal, active, after receiving the vaccine he shut down. Both parents are neurologist (more pro vaccine then them you don’t get) but sadly they are now in doubt after the level of aluminum in there child came back sky high….
No doubt every parent wants nothing more then a healthy child! But know a child with autism can persevere with the proper therapies and attention miles stone can be reached.
Having a deadly viral disease can not compare. IMO. Here in Miami, Fl you can request the MMR in 3 different shots instead of all 3 al once. Some parents these days opt for that option. FYI.
Kathy says:
My daughter had all her vax and is typical. My son had all his vax and has autism. We don’t attribute it to MMR, as we noticed symptoms in him at the age of 12 months. But who is to say it wasn’t from all the vax he had before the MMR?
There was not this huge discussion about vax and autism when my son was a baby. Even if there were, it probably wouldn’t have changed my mind. But now, I wish I had spread out his vax. It’s just too many shots for a tiny baby, whether it causes autism or not. Who knows if the vax/autism link is valid or not? The GOOD thing is that the discussion HAS brought autism to the forefront and is making scientists try to figure out what is causing it.
On a side note, referring to a child as “autistic” is really not appropriate. For me, personally, I prefer that people say “a child with autism”. “Autistic” makes it sound like that is all the child is. They aren’t –they are great kids with a life-changing diagnosis.
One last thing: for those who say they’d rather risk autism than a life-threatening disease, yes, I agree. I would rather have my son with autism than not have him at all. But please don’t be so cavalier about autism and the effects it has on a child and the family. Unless you live it day after day, year after year, knowing that your child will never recover from this, you have no idea of the pain and devastation that families go through when they receive this diagnosis.
PS- Heather, I am so sorry about your friend. I had breast cancer 3 years ago and was lucky enough to survive. I’ve been sending prayers your way since last April and will continue to do so now.
Marie says:
As an actual autistic person, just wanted to point out that most autistic people are offended by the expression “person with autism” as it makes the autism into something that must be separated from us because it is so terrible. You can phrase it the way you want, however I don’t think a non autistic person has the right to tell us what is “appropriate.” That’s like calling an african amercian the n word and telling them to like it.
Kathy says:
As the mother of a child with autism I have every right to determine what is the appropriate way to refer to my son. I would never call a person with cancer “cancerous” and I will not refer to a person with autism as “autistic”, because it IS a separate part of who they are just as cancer or any other diagnosis is. Your example of the “n” word is not even relevant and just serves to be inflammatory.
However, I will respect your position as to how you wish to be addressed and I would hope you would do the same to me, given that autism had affected both of our families.
TracyKM says:
THere is WAY more to be concerned about with vaccines than just autism. Just a look at the ingredient listing of a typical vaccine made me change my mind. Knowing that Dr Sears and his son, Dr Sears are pro-delayed and selective vaccine because of the aluminum (and other issues) eases my mind.
I’d feel better if doctors themselves were more informed. How many parents are told to NOT give infant Tylenol before a vaccine?! How many parents were even shown the ingredient listing or patient sheet with a vaccine?
It’s a tough subject; you can only be right for your own family.
.-= TracyKM´s last blog ..A Little More =-.
Al_Pal says:
Such a tough decision! I have some friends who have chosen to not vax at all and I’m a little worried about them. Their son is 5.5yo & in public Kindergarten.
There was an article in Wired mag about this stuff a couple months ago: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience
The reactions in letters are interesting, too.
I don’t have kids. Not sure if I will, but I’m hopeful that these questions will be answered in the next several years. It seems heartbreaking to potentially choose between life-threatening diseases and life-threatening reactions to vaccines. ;(
Eric says:
Not to point fingers at your friends (or you), but I think it’s absolutely ridiculous that a public school would accept their non-vaccinated son.
My daughter is currently in a preschool that adheres to the American Association of Pediatricians-recommended vaccination schedule. Kids that aren’t on that schedule, don’t get accepted to that preschool, period.
I wouldn’t send my daughter to any school that didn’t enforce the vax schedule.
Eric says:
PS– Of course, medically-necessary exemptions to the vax schedule, as confirmed by a pediatrician, are different.
statia says:
One of my son’s speech therapists went to a conference where the speaker used the game “don’t spill the beans” as a correlation to kids. For each environmental factor, put a bean in. For vaccination, put a bean in. For genetic predisposition to autism, ADHD, illness, etc, put a bean in. The moral being, you never know what the tipping point is. And that’s kind of where I stand. Every kid is different.
I am still kind of on the fence as to where I stand on the whole vax issue right now. Leaning towards anti-vax. My son, while he has had some developmental delays, is not autistic. Several therapists, as well as psychs have eval’d him, and they all say he’s not on the spectrum. However, I do think that his DTaP left him with some funnier quirks. We didn’t get his MMR, so I can’t really lay blame on it. I can’t really lay blame on the vaccine either. Who knows, maybe it was my love of all things high fructose corn syrup and red dye #40 when I was pregnant that did it to him. My point is, I don’t know where his beans tipping point is.
I haven’t yet started vaccinating my daughter. I still don’t know what I’m going to do about it. I was never fully vaccinated as a kid and haven’t been vaccinated ( a risk I was willing take ) for years. But I don’t judge others for what they believe. Pro-vax, anti-vax. It’s everyone’s choice. It SHOULD be everyone’s choice. My choice is not injecting poisons into my body. It’s not the disease I worry about, it’s all of the preservatives and metals, used to bind the vaccine. Maybe a lot of people can tolerate, but there is a percentage that can’t.
Eric says:
Should it be everyone’s own individual choice? Or, since your choice could affect other people’s children, is there an element of societal responsibility here?
I’m just asking the question, and I know there aren’t any great answers.
For me, I believe that schools and daycares should require the AAP-recommended vaccines, on schedule (and most of them do).
But it’s not quite as clear as “my kids, my choice.” Because it affects all of our kids too, assuming your kids come in contact with others.
joy says:
Every state handles vaccine exemptions differently. all allow for medical exemptions, some allow for philospohical and religious exemptions.
Public schools cannot discriminate against non-vaxed children if said children have a state exemption (depending of course on the laws of the state as to what exemptions are allowed). private schools can set different rules for admission.
.-= joy´s last blog ..Late update on Dominic’s party and musings =-.
Eric says:
Personally, if it were up to me, I’d remove the religious/philosophical exemptions for public schools.
Every parent has the right to do as they please for their kids — I’m not suggesting vaccine squads roaming the neighborhoods. But I also don’t think any parent has the right to risk my child’s life, either.
joy says:
If you don’t what your child exposed to children who are LEGALLY exempt from vaccines, then you should put them in private schools.
There are many reasons to have legal exemptions. We went with a philosophical exemption to delay vax’s until age 2 because my niece nearly died from a DTAP reaction and our pediatrician agreed that being cautious made sense.
Then after DS had a major regression following his MMR and lost his ability to speak we got a medical exemption to any further vaccines.
So, yeah, science may say there’s no link, but please don’t insult me by saying my kid who was speaking in sentances prior to his vaccine and inable to after wasn’t damaged by it. And there are THOUSANDS of other parents out there who have the same video documentation of their kids before / after. Our neurologist says that its “autistic regression syndrome” triggered by a brain injury. and of course, because of the use of the A word, insurance doesn’t pay for the therapy. No mind that the symptoms are similar to a stroke….
.-= joy´s last blog ..Late update on Dominic’s party and musings =-.
jackie says:
I’m sorry if this is repetition… but a) they redacted the study because of ethical reasons, not scientific (though don’t ge me started on how the science is flawed… wtf) so that just muddies the waters further and b) people who refuse to vaccinate need to consider something called ‘herd immunity’ before they make their rash proclamations.
Sarah says:
omg before people start freaking out about sids on here…http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35204455/
Rach says:
to Sarah: Yes, your mother is healthy. My uncle is not…polio that has ravaged his body and continues to do so. I think we could be here all day, playing “well, this person is healthy and unvaccinated” and then, “well, I know this person who is not.”
I am glad your mother escaped childhood unharmed…it just seems like Russian Roulette to me…
.-= Rach´s last blog ..this will probably change =-.
Colleen says:
As a mom of a child who was vaccinated (later than the normal schedule due family history of severe allergies and thus recommended delay of vaccinations by ped.), there is way more to consider. My dd was a healthy, vibrant, 12 month old and within a week of her first vaccination (TD minus the p – for reasons listed above and approved / recommended by ped) she was in surgery having bilateral cataracts removed. She now has visual limitations. Yes, she may have developed cataracts later in life. Yes, the latent condition WAS a factor in the develoment of the cataracts so quickly after the vaccination. The manufacturer of the vaccine (who I was in communication with thruout our investigation / research during the time of this event — with I might add, the backing of our ped / eye specialists) did affirm that latent conditions / genetic disorders often are brought to the fore when vaccination takes place. This is due to the kicking in of immune system processes after the vaccination — the intended response often brings good immunity to many of the children / infants but there is also that chance that your child may be the one that has a latent condition brought to the fore long before it would have in a general run. Am I happy my dd will have grown up with visual deficits that may not have manifest themselves until later adulthood? No but we live with this condition and learn to adapt / accept it’s limitations. After this event, her dr’s did allergy testing / other genetic and medical tests to determine the safety of continued immunizations. Any done were done in the allergist office and the type of vaccine considered safe was not covered by our insurance (Canada here) and we paid out of pocket to obtain the vaccine that didn’t incorportate the preservatives that were likely responsible. My dd turned out to be allergic to thimerisol (mercury based) that was in the vaccine she received. Her continued immunizations have been limited due to availability of vaccine without certain ingredients. So while I understand the premise that the vaccines prevent disease, I do think that much more could be done to make them safer but that often it is ‘profit’ that limits such choices / continued manufacture of these safer products. There is so much to consider when giving our children vaccines. I did my research before vaccinations but learned so much more after vaccinations due to turning over more stones, even direct communication / admissions from the manufacturers themselves that is not disclosed to us in the limited literature provided. Still lots to learn about the immune system but I think sometimes the solutions / safety is limited by funding / profit margins. Just my experience and I do not discuss or judge others who vaccinate, just as I desire them not to judge me and my family. It is such a personal decision and responsibility for each parent / family.
Christine says:
This post will probably get lost in everything else but here goes:
I have 3 kids (boy, boy, girl). My middle has autism. Not vaccine injured, but rather an aquired brain injury at birth.
He regressed some after a flu shot at 2, so we stopped vaxing him then.
My other 2 are fully vax’d. 100% healthy and neurotypical.
However I find it offensive to the parents who did watch their child change literally overnight, for them to be told “Nope. Not that. We don’t know what caused it. But it wasn’t what you think it is”
I have a good friend who that happened to 8yrs ago. I knew the child before and after.
I think Jenny McCarthy meant well but went overboard with everything. Initially I was glad she was a voice for many families, but after a while I just wished she would shut up.
Crazy as it sounds I’m glad that my sons diagnosis stems from his birth. Dr’s and ped’s concurred. At least we know why. He was different from the beginning.
I feel for all of those parents who had a normal, healthy developing child who was lost to them overnight. And to have no answers as to why. When they “know” why…
Eric says:
Until there’s a scientific link PROVEN between vaccines and autism, those parents will still be told “it isn’t what you think it is.”
There are nicer ways to say that, of course. But scientifically and factually, that is the reality of it.
Christine says:
maybe the children are the scientific link?
wendy thomas says:
It is just so easy for those who have never had a vacc reaction with their child to say that those of us who have stopped vaccs are not being responsible to society. You will never know what it’s like to have your child be near death because of something you gave your kid that the Big Pharms tried to convince you was safe (while being profitabl to them).
Vaccs are responsible for a lot of damage in children and adults. The damage being done to young girls and women in the name of gardasil is simply criminal and yet there are so many mothers out there who think nothing of lining their daughters up for that one.
Even the flu shots are suspect – note the recent recall where they were determined to not be effective.
The argument that
“my kid had vaccs and he’s okay” is so self centered. What about the other kids who have had them and have been injured. How many deaths and injuries is considered okay with regard to the “greater good”?
.-= wendy thomas´s last blog ..A little discussion on Cheap vs. Thrifty =-.
Eric says:
Your constant bashing of the Gardasil vaccine is misinformed. Please post links to the studies or papers which discuss the “criminal damage” being done to girls and women, as you claim.
Gardasil could virtually erase both HPV and cervical cancer from existence. It could be as revolutionary as Salk’s polio vaccine.
wendy thomas says:
Gardasil could virtually erase both HPV and cervical cancer from existence. It could be as revolutionary as Salk’s polio vaccine.
Wow! That’s quite a statement. It made me wonder if perhaps you were somehow affiliated with Gardasil. I mean to compare it with Salk’s vaccine, imagine!
Your second reply then went on to say that you had worked (profitted) from the research of gardasil.
You are free to give your daughter the medication you see fit just as I am free to refuse it.
.-= wendy thomas´s last blog ..Project Chickens before the Eggs – Lesson 60 – The corollary – respect the chicken =-.
Michele says:
My child is fully vaccinated and has a medical condition for which I want safe vaccines. A dear friend has a son who was vaccinated – at age 14 he was still in diapers, non-verbal and severely self-mutalating. She fully believes it was vaccines & she isn’t the first person to have a child on the severe end of the spectrum that believes this. I would never dream of telling her she had to vaccinate any of her kids.
My concerns are my right to have full disclosure & make informed choices for my family. Why has the rate gone from 1 in 10,000 in the 1980s to 1 in 100 today? Why has there never been a vaccinated vs. unvaccinated study done (that was the gold standard in science when I was in school)? Why aren’t single shots offered? Why did our government give the pharma companies immunity from liability (do you know of any other consumer product that carries this kind of government protection?)? If we are relying on the AAP and CDC to tell what is best, then why isn’t everyone required to breastfeed as the AAP says that is best? Breastfeeding also provides a measure of protection to young infants. How many adults are up to date on their boosters – with global travel adults can just as easily bring disease into the country.
With over 100 new vaccines in the developmental pipeline, when will you decide enough is enough and will you have the right to stop at that point? Do we really have that many earth shattering dieseases? Have we gone too far – wouldn’t slowing things down to the 1980s schedule until an answer is found go along way to allieviating the fear & damage? Why do we allow pharma executives & vaccine researchers decide the schedule?
In this country, I believe we could find a way to test for those who are vulnerable if we wanted to. We don’t need 100% compliance to achieve herd immunity. Why doesn’t our government want to find a way to test for the vulnerable?
I personally think we should be careful about freedoms we give up – at some point you might be forced to give up more that you want.
Megan J in Ohio says:
Heartily, heartily concurr!
.-= Megan J in Ohio´s last blog ..Our Winter Wonderland =-.
Katrina says:
Oh yes….excellent points! Bravo!
.-= Katrina´s last blog ..got a tissue? =-.
Aly says:
This topic is very sensitive to me. My child was normal, until a round of Vaccinations, after the age of 3. It’s so easy for others to dismiss me as jumping on the Jenny Bandwagon (How I wish autism had a different, less obnoxious voice- unfortunately her story/voice is real). Anyway, to have WHAT I KNOW HAPPENED denied & ridiculed, is unbelievably hard to swallow. You all, as mothers, know your child inside and out. Wouldn’t you know if that child changed OVERNIGHT? Wouldn’t you?! Please be open-minded. Especially be kind to the parents of children with autism who were vacinne-injured. I thought this was such a kind forum until yesterday. I’m pretty stunned by so many’s voices that haven’t experienced what some of us have. I hope you never have to. But you dont know, more than I do, WHAT HAPPENED TO MY KID. Please, show some respect.
heather: Congrats on Annabel, I’m heartfelt happy for you. May she be healthy, always.
Katrina says:
I have met many parents of brain injured children (because my daughter has a brain injury due to a car accident she was in when she was 4…and the institute that we took her to in PA worked only with brain injured children, so I met many families with brain injured children there over the years) and those parents who had normal children until a vaccine changed them overnight…well, I met them. They do exist. I met their children. I saw before and after videos of them. And it’s very heartbreaking. Sure, it might not be the “norm” and might not happen often, but when it’s your child, statistics and percentages — none of that matters. You know your child was fine until you took him/her to get that shot. It’s an awful feeling, as a parent, to know that something you agreed to — that you signed for –caused so much damage to your child. So sad. There are children/babies who get an immediate reaction from a vaccine and do end up brain injured as a result. No doctor will tell you that that isn’t a fact. It even says so on the disclaimer that you sign before they give the shot. So that must mean that it does happen. I’m just saying that yea, it is hard to read these harsh and condemning comments from people… well-meaning mothers, I’m sure, but really…unless it’s happened to your child and you’ve walked in those shoes, you have no idea what you would do. If one of your closest friends had a baby that was severely damaged by a vaccine, would you be a bit leery when it came time to make that choice for your baby? Or what if your sister’s baby ended up brain injured after a vaccine? or what if your own baby did? what, then, would you do when it came time to make that choice for another baby of yours? All I’m saying is that the majority of the people who choose not to vax don’t come to that decision lightly. They have their reasons, they’ve done their research. Do you think it’s an easy road to take, to not vax? When there are so many looking down their noses at you? when schools want to tell you that your child cannot attend? or when forums start up and basically tell you that you are being an irresponsible citizen? Wouldn’t it be easier to just go along with what everyone else does? To come to that decision takes a lot of research, thought, prayer, and sometimes personal experience.
.-= Katrina´s last blog ..got a tissue? =-.
Aly says:
Thank you, Katrina! I appreciate your words so much.
Meg says:
I am so glad that the pro-vaccine people are coming out and speaking out more and more. Amanda Peet did some pro-vaccine PR last year and that made me happy.
My heart breaks for parents whose children are diagnosed with autism and who blame themselves for vaccinating their kids. I hope we can move forward with some of the more useful scientific research rather than stopping vaccinations.
Christine says:
I believe Amanda Peete referred to those who do not vaccinate as “parasites” in Cookie magazine.
She lost all credo from me when she did that (and I vax my kids)
Aly says:
She did indeed call other parents that. I respect anyone/everyone’s decision to vaccinate or not….however, she lost all of my respect with that comment.
Eric says:
Although Peet made a poor choice of words…..her point is accurate.
The reason that parents can choose to not vax and yet their kids don’t contract measles, polio, etc. is because most of us DO vaccinate our kids.
But what if we all stopped?
So the “parasite” comment, while insensitive, has some truth to it. In some ways, parents who don’t vaccinate, yet rely on the herd immunity provided by those of us who do vaccinate, are selfish.
Sarah Denley says:
My husband is a pharmacist and I had a really hard time for awhile excepting the risks that came with vaccinating our child, proven and not proven.
However, he made me realize that ANTIBIOTICS are proven to cause for more cases of deadly reactions than vaccinations and I would have never known that because I have never seen any media hype on it the way I have with vaccines.
.-= Sarah Denley´s last blog ..By the God’s Grace, I Am What I Am =-.
Megan J in Ohio says:
Antibiotics ruined my daughter’s adult teeth. My ped kept prescribing them over and over, for 10 months straight. (chronic ear infections). I was 19 and it didn’t occur to me to question the doc I had seen all my life, until one day I just refused to let him give them to her anymore. She still had a couple more ear infections, but her body learned to fight them off. When her adult teeth grew in, many had no enamil at all. My dentist asked if she had been sick as a toddler, and told me that the antibiotics were responsible. Since then, I am very, very careful about when and how we use them.
.-= Megan J in Ohio´s last blog ..Our Winter Wonderland =-.
Kelly says:
I respect people’s choice in not wanting to vaccinate, although I am absolutely pro-vaccine for my own children.
What I don’t like is anti-vaccine people who don’t inform others of what they do. Yes – you have a choice not to vaccinate, but surely I should then have a choice of exposing my child to yours.
In my experience, we had a mom show up to our group with her older child who was home sick from daycare with chickenpox. She didn’t vaccinate. My child was too young to vaccinate. She just brought this sick child along to the group without any worry or concern, then made out like it was incredibly rude for anyone to query her choice to not vaccinate, and she shouldn’t have to clear it with other people first, or even discuss her family choices with anyone else – it was personal and private. Please realise – nobody queried her right to choice on vaccinations – we queried her bringing a sick child to a group of at risk babies, all < 1 year of age.
Meanwhile there were two pregnant ladies in the group, and none of the other babies were old enough to be vaccinated against chickenpox. LUCKILY we didn't get it, and the pregnant ladies also managed to get through unscathed. Three out of twelve kids got it, and their moms were sensible enough to keep those kids at home until no longer infectious.
So to anyone anti-vaccination, I say: If you want your choice, fine… But please don't enforce your choice on me by spreading a disease or virus that my child doesn't need or want. We would prefer the vaccination route.
Heather – thanks for the post. I think those who are disappointed with you are being a bit harsh – you're entitled to your opinion just as they are. Just because your opinion doesn't necessarily match their own doesn't make you the devil – it just makes them a little over-sensitive. I can't see anything in your post that could be taken as aggressively pro-vaccine or claiming anyone against it is an idiot.
Big hugs to you and yours
.-= Kelly´s last blog ..Princess in a castle =-.
Michele says:
This is an excellent point and it also works both directions. My child, former 29 weeker who also has a genetic disease, is very susceptable to the common cold and the other “childhood” diseases. However, he is a happy, intelligent, curious kid who loves school.
With the advent of the flumist type immunizations I now worry about which classmate went that route vs. the shot. The reason for my concern is because the mist type immunizations shed the live virus for several weeks. Therefore, if your child had the flu mist and is shedding the virus and my child sits next to yours he could pick up the flu before he has even had a chance to get his own flu shot.
Even though we are all doing what we believe is best for our children, with the most sincere of intentions, we can cause harm to others. This can be a difficult thing to comprehend and there aren’t any easy answers.
Ellen says:
As a special education teacher and then school psychologist for the past 35 years, I have had the unique position of seeing the laws, technology, and general culture of children with disabilities change drastically for both better and worse. The replies posted here are exactly what I have been waiting to hear regarding this post. The number of children with autism, vaccinated or not, gluten-free diet or not, oxygen chambers or not, ABA therapy or not, PECS or not, has dramatically increased over the last ten years, and essentially over the last five years. Pervasive developmental disorders, which includes disorders in the Autism spectrum, have found a voice, and just like any other matter that has found a voice over the years, it has been noticed. People no longer have to be educated on psychological disorders to recognize the symptoms of autism. In my profession, we often refer to the saying, “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” If you are familiar with autism and know a few of the hundreds of different symptoms that can occur, then more than likely, that will be your first guess when trying to decide why your precious child isn’t “perfect.” Unfortunately, the many other disorders that affect children daily are not receiving the voice that autism has found. Autism-spectrum disorders have existed for several decades if not centuries, however, the severe cases of autism were not educated in public schools and were generally placed in residential facilities until the 1980s and often today. Children with what has been coined as high-functioning autism or other spectrum disorders such as Asperger’s were just “quirky” or “anti-social” or “obsessive.” Many children with autism were and are still today misdiagnosed with disorders such as Tourette’s or mental retardation, which are both often co-morbid in children with autism. The fact of the matter is that every child is different with or without a disability, and frankly, I am sure we can all think of someone who may be a little “spectrumy” as we jokingly refer to the various people I encounter throughout my job–including several of my highly successful co-workers. Several of the most brilliant scientists, presidents, and authors of our time are speculated to have been on the spectrum. Judgments can be passed and blames can be made, but in the end, a child with autism still has autism. A parent cannot take back a vaccine and a parent cannot take away the risks of whooping cough, mumps, rubella and the list goes on. Even with vaccinations, there is still a chance that these “life-threatening” diseases will manifest within a child or adult. Therefore, it is important to made educated decisions about every aspect of our children’s life and agree that the decision made for one child is never going to be the same for any other child, even within the same family.
Krista says:
This is a complicated, emotional, highly personal issue. No one wants to see their children suffer. I wouldn’t want my kids to get polio OR autism, and it shouldn’t come down to that.
I hope that the Lancet’s retraction (which surprised me only because I thought this study had been discredited years ago…) stimulates more extensive research into the causes of autism. We need to focus on providing these children and their families with effective therapies while the causes are being investigated.
This topic seems similar to the abortion topic in that people on either side of the debate don’t seem to listen to each other that well, but rather to continuously seek out information which supports what they already believe.
Okay, pot stirred.
Oh, and Heather, Annie is just too stinkin’ cute!
wendy thomas says:
Regarding natural immunity. I chose to not have anyone in my family get the H1N1 vacc. At one time I had 5 of the 6 kids down with it. Were they sick? You betcha, Did one get in trouble with respiratory issues? yup – even went had to go to the ER.
But they were all healthy kids who eat well, exercise and are strong.
The result? they weathered the storm and now have natural immunity for the rest of their lives as opposed to those who had the shot and now need to get a new one for the mutated virus that is expected next year.
We have immune systems for a reason, if we keep circumventing them, they will stop working.
.-= wendy thomas´s last blog ..A little discussion on Cheap vs. Thrifty =-.
wendy thomas says:
I am a Special Education Advocate. I work with parents of some of the toughest kids. To claim that austic children are smiply “creative children” whom the parents would not want to change is ridiculous.
Every parent loves their child regardless of their disabilites but to ignore that those parents don’t go to bed each night with the thought “what if?” is denying a sharp and persistant heart agony that will never go away.
.-= wendy thomas´s last blog ..A little discussion on Cheap vs. Thrifty =-.
Nikki says:
Wow, I’m, very disappointed in the rude, judgemental, comments from a lot of the pro-vax people. Let me just say my kids have most of their vaccinations, but that was before I did research from the other side of the debate. Trust me I did a ton of research. I believe anyone having an opinion on the topic should be researching both sides. There is so much more then autism to think about concerning vaccines. I am now leaning toward not vaccinating, at the very least no more the one at a time. Before you run your mouths you really should research the other side. I’m sure a few have, but my guess is most haven’t. You might be surprised at what you learn. To make an informed decision you need to be informed from both sides. At that point everyone has a right to make up their own minds. I wasn’t going to comment yesterday, but the more I thought about it I just had to put in my two cents.
Lisa says:
Just have to say I find it quite funny that this comment calls people rude and judgemental, while being extremely rude and judgemental. Telling people not to “run their mouths?” Rude.
Nikki says:
Have you read through all of the comments, so many rude, hurtful comments. Not called for, I don’t think that is what Heather had in mind. I call that running your mouth. Call me rude if you want but I was very put off by some of the blatant knocks at people who choose not to vaccinate. Which at this point I haven’t completely decided on as it is not black and white, but I didn’t go attacking the pro-vaccine group. My comment was not judgemental or rude. I think YOU are extremely rude and judgmental to call me on my comment.
Nikki says:
Oh, and glad I made you laugh;)
Lisa says:
You made me laugh again. I’m rude for calling you on your comment…a comment that was calling others on their comments.
Nikki says:
Laughing right back at you, I guess it takes one to know one!
Eric says:
“Before you run your mouths you really should research the other side.”
There aren’t “two sides” to a scientific argument. There are the facts, and that’s it.
The facts at this point all consistently point to absolutely, positively, no linkage whatsoever between any vaccine and any disease on the autism spectrum. Period.
For me, there is no “other side.” If a scientifically-reputable shows otherwise, I would look at it. Right now, that doesn’t exist.
Nikki says:
Excuse me, but I wasn’t even talking about autism. DO THE RESEARCH. You will find there are many, many things that can go wrong after a vaccination, like, hmmm, death, brain damage, just to name a couple. THERE ARE TWO SIDES, obviously you do not know the facts. This post may have initially been about an autism link, but I was specifically talking about adverse reactions from vaccines, sorry if I didn’t clarify.
joy says:
Our neurologist wanted to diagnose DS with autistic regression syndrome. I said – do that and you’re screwing him out of any insurance benefits (believe it or not, my insurance has a line item exclusion for any treatment related to an autism dx. and given that the “only scientifically proven treatment” is intense 30hr per week ABA therapy, which runs THOUSANDS of dollars a month). So the neurologist formally diagnosed him with aquired aphasia for insurance purposes
However, he gave us autistic regression syndrome for the school.
So, in our case, i truely believe a dx of a viral brain injury to be more accurate that a dx of autism, but the end result is, as the neurologist noted, The Same. A nonverbal, socially awkward child.
We went over a year without hearing the words I Love You from our little boy (when he said them clearly before the regression), and YES we absolutely want a way to heal his brain injury.
.-= joy´s last blog ..wow =-.
rachel says:
my oldest son has all of his vaccines…he is allergic to everything, has excema and developed arthritis in his hip after the chicken pox vaccine….my daughter is 6 has had no vaccines and is the heathiest child I know…never even been sick enough to need antibiotics..some kids react to vaccines, some don’t..just another tough choice, my choice now is no vaccines because of my damaged son.
Eric says:
Then I hope your daughter is home-schooled, and doesn’t encounter other children.
Otherwise, you’re putting all of our kids at risk.
rachel says:
i would much rather my son have had the chicken pox than a lifetime of pain in his hip…he has been hospitalized three times because he can not move his leg…..he is only ten dude…ten. chicken pox would have been done and over with in a few weeks….now a lifetime of arthritis….lifetime.
Marie says:
A few stats that might make you think
A child who gets a measles vaccination shot has a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of becoming brain-damaged as a result.
A child who catches measles has a 1 in 1,000 chance of suffering brain damage from the disease itself, and a 1 in 500 chance of dying from the disease.
Which makes more sense, the vaccination or the disease?
Michele says:
Hubs and I are “pro-information”. We’ve made the decision to vaccinate a very case-by-case (or should I say vaccine by vaccine) decision. We have researched ingredients in their vaccines and made the decisions based on that research (husband is a scientist who, incidentally, works with biologics and vaccines). Everything has a risk; sometimes it is just a numbers game of what risk is greater.
.-= Michele´s last blog ..Quick Update =-.
Vanessa Jordan says:
Heather,
I am so frigging confused I could just sit down and cry, I worry so much about vaccinating my 2 almost 3 year old, I gave my older one the vaccines and she done just horrible, ran a fever for over 10 days, got sicker than she had been in her entire life, so with Jada I have really been trying to get educated on vaccines but there’s so much information on both sides that I could just pull my hair out!!! If I don’t I risk her getting the x disease and if I do, am I saying I trust the FDA because I most certainly do not!!
I have researched many different drugs, and the ones they have approved to pad their pockets, but it was ok that people lost their lives, I just don’t trust them at all! I don’t know which way to turn now, the only thing that has giving me hope is the parents that say they space out the vaccines, they do it on their time lines, that’s been one ray of hope, I will do some research on spacing them out some, and she if it brings some peace of mind:)
Lexi says:
A few things:
First, the retraction was made because the study was flawed. The Lancet did NOT at any point say “vaccines don’t cause autism”. They said, “this particular study was unethical”. Funny how diehard pro-vaccine’ers are seeing this as some kind of giant victory.
Do I personally think vaccines cause autism? Not on their own. I do think it likely that vaccines can “set off” something in a child whose tiny body can’t handle them, for whatever reason.
Second. It would be interesting to know how many “Jenny-bashers” have actually sat down and read her books (there are 2 about autism: ‘Louder than Words’, and ‘Mother Warriors’). If you base your opinion simply on her media coverage, yeah, she comes off as a loud-mouth crazy. But if you read her story, the things she’s been through with her son…well, I’d probably be a little crazy, too. I’m NOT saying that I agree with everything she says. But if I put my son on a special diet and his language started coming back? I’d shout it from the rooftops….of course it won’t work for every child (and she says that!), but I’d bet the moms it did work for are SO glad they heard it. You have to take everything with a grain of salt. And I must note here: I have a son with autism. I don’t do a special diet. Luckily, he doesn’t have the “leaky gut” issues that many autistic children do have. If he did? You can bet I’d try anything.
As for the ‘herd mentality’ thing…yes, I think it’s selfish not to vaccinate unless there is a medical reason not to. The people who “know someone” who is “unvaccinated and perfectly healthy” kind of irritate me, to be honest. D’ya know why they’re not catching these diseases? Because other people have vaccinated for them. They’re not all that likely to actually be exposed. If everyone stopped vaccinating, there would be a lot fewer “perfectly healthy” people out there. (/soapbox). That being said, making vaccines safer, and spreading out the schedule both make very good sense.
At the very least, this debate has bought autism some airtime. It affects so many, and much more research needs to be done.
It saddens me that we can’t all be civil to one another, though.
.-= Lexi´s last blog ..GAH. =-.
Eric says:
Good points, Lexi, especially about the herd mentality concept.
I will say this, about the Lancet study — it is true, it was retracted for reasons of ethics (or lack thereof) in the research.
The reason that “pro-vacciners” see this as a victory is because that one single study was the ONLY one to even hint any any linkage between vax and autism.
Dozens of other studies have been performed, around the world, with no linkage seen whatsoever.
That one article in Lancet basically sparked the anti-vaccine movement.
But with the retraction of that article, the science is now unanimously clear: vaccines do not cause, or have any connection to, autism.
Helena says:
I haven’t done enough research to take a side on this. But I can tell you what happened to my sister last year.
She has been married for a few years, and her husband has many little nieces and nephews. His brother is an Orthopedic Brain surgeon, and he and his wife have 3 little children. They used to have 4.
Their littlest girl died last summer, because of one of the normal vaccines she was given. She got a cold. Her brain swelled, and she became listless. They took her to the hospital, but it was too late. She was 2 when she died. Her dad explained what happened. He said that from the moment she got the vaccine, she was dying. It happens sometimes. Any little infection would have triggered it. Had she not been vaccinated, she would be alive.
He is racked with guilt, because he is a doctor, and could not help his own baby.
I’m not saying vaccines are bad- obviously less children die every year because of them. I’m just saying that for all the hundreds who live, there are a few who die because of the vaccines.
Terri says:
I’m very sorry for the loss of your niece. That is just heartbreaking.
Eric says:
You are right. I draw the analogy to seat belts and airbags. They save countless lives. Yet in a few freak accidents, they can cause injury or death.
The fact that they save many, many, many more lives than they cost is cold comfort to someone who’s lost a loved one.
Kelly says:
First, let me echo a cute comment that someone else made (I’ve ready so many now that my eyes are a crossin’): I’ve fallen in love with your family, Heather. Love your wit, your courage, and pictures of you and yours.
OK, with that out of the way, here are my thoughts on this. *Insert sentence here that qualifies my statements, since I have a degree/a child/etc. (Eye roll.)*
First and foremost, we are all moms. Why aren’t we helping each other? Why do all conversations about vaccines, breastfeeding, and other parenting CHOICES turn into weird peeing contests? I don’t get it.
I don’t necessarily agree with some of Jenny McCarthy’s strategies, but I appreciate her viewpoint. I appreciate the fact that she opened up the discussion where they may not have been one before. I don’t believe in blindly following the FDA because they said so. I believe in questioning methods. And research. And PROFESSIONALS.
To me, it’s all about education, and what’s best for your family. Choosing or not choosing vaccinations doesn’t make you an ass, uneducated, or a bad parent, as long as your decision AND opinion doesn’t hurt anyone else (or their child).
For me, it’s simple. My Mom was meticulous about keeping my medical records, from birth on. I asked to see my first five years. I counted the number of vaccinations, and compared them to the proposed schedule now, and was SHOCKED. I got all of my vaccinations on time, but grew up as one of those sick kids on the playground with their inhaler.
My CHOICE (since I feel the word is so important and so misunderstood based on all of these comments) has been to stagger the vaccines for my little nugget and wait on others. This works for US.
What doesn’t work for US are “fear tactics” or people shoving numbers, statistics, and unfounded websites in my face. I read and read and asked and asked and talked and talked to my parents, my doctor, my son’s doctor, and my husband until we made the decision that worked. What was helpful was reading the comments left by other moms in the spirit of helpfulness, rather than judgement.
Do I believe that vaccines cause autism? I dunno. I happen to believe (based on my research and *ahem* degree) that they do indeed trigger things latent in some immune systems, as pregnancy did with me. Full blown Lupus after popping kiddo out. Although that doesn’t equate with vaccines to autism exactly, the idea is similar. Sometimes it just takes something to flare something else up.
.-= Kelly´s last blog ..People Looked Like Robots and Jamie Foxx Did The Running Man: Grammy’s 2010 =-.
Eric says:
“Choosing or not choosing vaccinations doesn’t make you an ass, uneducated, or a bad parent, as long as your decision AND opinion doesn’t hurt anyone else (or their child).”
But it does, or very easily can, harm someone else or their child. And people who choose not to vaccinate may injure or even kill other children without even being aware of that.
No parent who chooses not to vaccinate can be absolutely, 100% certain that their decision isn’t risking the lives of other people. (Short of keeping their child in a bubble, I suppose.)
Kelly says:
I’m aware of that. Since my child attends daycare, he is required to have certain immunzations, which we did. We just staggered them, and he stayed with my Mom until the cycle was finished. Enough said.
.-= Kelly´s last blog ..People Looked Like Robots and Jamie Foxx Did The Running Man: Grammy’s 2010 =-.
Erin says:
I am very pro vaccine. I have a 2 1/2 year old boy. my concern is not with the vaccines but with every child being put on the same time line for all shots. My son was full term but was only 6 1/2 lbs when born. he has never been out of the 10th percentile for weight. So why is ever child no matter weather they were born early big small late put into the same shot schedule? Should vaccines not be given based on the child and not the chart?
Jess says:
Wow I see some really crazy remarks here… There are many other reasons to NOT vaccinate other than the supposed autism link. First of all I dont trust the government to tell me what is best for me or my kids and I used to work for the government and my husband currently works for them. If most people actually knew what they put into those vaccines you would be sick to your stomach. I am a selective delayed vaxer and I have five kids. First of all you can still get rotovirus after you get the vax…other vaxes you can lose immunity after the fact that you’ve had them and boosters. We dont do the chicken pox at all, of course some people get it really bad but I survived it and chances are you did too most people do. polio has been irradicated from the us completely so unless you are going out of the country, why??? Children who arent vaccinated arent at risk from non vaxers because if the vaccine is working like they tell you it does, why are you so worried? There is no answer to all of this. I hope that most people dont blindly just follow what the government tells you to do. Just like they pumped me full of shots I had no idea what they even were when I worked for them and I wasnt allowed to question it, scary! Do you’re homework and then decide dont just assume they all have your best at heart!
Resha says:
Being a parents is not an easy task, so many things to consider especially to the health and wealth of the family. For this generation nowadays, we are at risk to contaminate diseases like transmitted diseases. Having a vaccine is much more better in order to be sure of the health of the family. So I guess this is really a good decision.